(no subject)

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

In answer to paft's question about whether there is actually voter fraud going on, the answer looks to be yes.

Now, I'm not going to say that state voter ids will prevent this. Nor do I oppose absentee ballots or voting by mail. My only point is that there is voter fraud that you can find when someone actually looks for it. And we do need to think about the proper ways to structure the system to try and prevent fraud as best we can.

Comments

[new-wave-witch.livejournal.com]

So what we have here is a person openly stating that they plan to submit a mail-in ballot AND vote in-person, and a poll worker accepting that plan. Were or will both votes me counted? Because when asked that very question, if she will basically be voting twice, the poll worker said they don't know. Where's the smoking gun in that? Another good question would be why anything attached to James O'Keefe's name is still even suggested as being credible.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

It was credible enough to fire her (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/10/dnc_fires_employee_james_okeefe_video.php).

[new-wave-witch.livejournal.com]

Then our topic has shifted from voter fraud to worker capability?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Yes, just like the person whose speech was taken out of context and who was also fired based on the honest reporting (har har) that this here Irishman does.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

Watch the clip gunslinger posted.

When asked if anyone checks to see if someone voted twice, she responds "i don't know that's not my expertise"

Keep in mind that voter ID wouldn't even prevent this specific situation.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

So instead of looking at the majority of video where they're showing stats and figures, you focus on the 10 seconds where they're referencing a video that shows how easy it is to do, even though they specifically state that it's not a smoking gun of anything. Interesting.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

oh, the O'Keefe thing. They still let him have access to video equipment?

And we do need to think about the proper ways to structure the system to try and prevent fraud as best we can.

And if that's what the voter ID laws (pushed by republicans) in those swing states (pushed by republicans) actually did, then they might not have gotten overturned almost entirely.

Aside from most evidence pointing to the fact that there's very little actual voter fraud to begin with, what we need to think about is how to prevent fraud without impinging people's rights -- especially when many of those people are of minorities already proportionally over-affected by discrimination to begin with.

We can't all be Jim Cramer's dad.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

The O'Keefe thing is a side point of the clip I posted, but certainly the thing to focus on if you don't want to think about the real issue.

Aside from most evidence pointing to the fact that there's very little actual voter fraud to begin with

Except for the clip showing that there is.

what we need to think about is how to prevent fraud without impinging people's rights

Requiring ID doesn't impinge on people's rights. Passing a law to require it without allowing for adequate time to get one would, yes.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Nice contribution to Friday Nonsense :D

[dwer.livejournal.com]

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Nobody questions if it exists, what people question is whether or not it exists as elaborate conspiracy theories to deny elections their 'rightful' outcome.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

dwer and paft say it doesn't exist.

No one's claiming it's an elaborate conspiracy.

[oslo.livejournal.com]

And we do need to think about the proper ways to structure the system to try and prevent fraud as best we can.

Why?

There are lots of things we can say we need to prevent or improve "as best we can." But in the non-ideologically-colored world, we understand that implementing policy solutions involves balancing interests. For example, many of the most popular "voter fraud" prevention measures appear likely to disenfranchise many people, preventing more legitimate votes than illegitimate ones. Is that irrelevant? Why does it never seem to factor in any voter-fraud enthusiast's tirade?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Because they only appear so to certain people with incentive to allow voter fraud to occur.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

now, here's definitely a kind of fraud, that we should be trying to stop.

http://samuel-warde.com/2012/10/voter-registration-fraud-caught-red-handed-video/

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

It's labeled fraud, but what's the actual fraud? He's registering people and getting paid for it. So what? The fraud is only if he's submitting fraudulent registrations.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Ok, both voter fraud and voter suppression should be stopped. Doesn't matter who's side it's on, bottom line is let the people vote.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Yes, let the people vote who are legally allowed to vote, and no one else.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

next time try to prove the point you're trying to make. I'm not seeing evidence of people voting more than once, only that they have multiple registrations. A voter may not know if they'll be in Fla or Ohio on election day.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

It doesn't work that way. It doesn't matter where you are on that day, that's why there's absentee ballots. The only reason to register twice is to vote twice.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

The fact we even have 'voter registration' instead of just giving every citizen the right to vote no strings attached just proves that this country still has a long way to come in terms of democracy.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

How do you prove that random person standing in front of you asking for a ballot is a citizen?

[foolsguinea.livejournal.com]

"And we do need to think about the proper ways to structure the system to try and prevent fraud as best we can."

Right. Which means ending absentee ballots, not concocting a voter ID system which will facilitate fraud. Voter ID's mean the ability to counterfeit voter ID's. It's creating a new method of false credentials for the party that can take advantage of it, under the spurious claim that it will stop fraud.

[foolsguinea.livejournal.com]

Let me be clear. I am opposed to absentee voting because of the risk of intercepted ballots. Not because of this kind of double voting. There's a procedure to stop double voting via absentee ballots already: You check the absentee ballot envelope against a list of in-person voters, and throw it out if the voter already voted. Easy as cake.

This guy was wasting his time.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

They only do that in the one state. They don't check against other states. So no, he wasn't wasting his time.

I am opposed to absentee voting because of the risk of intercepted ballots

What risk is that? That seems significantly less of a risk than most other forms of fraud.