Rolling Down the Haystack

[paft.livejournal.com]

The “Little House” books by Laura Ingalls Wilder, her autobiographical account of growing up in a 19th century pioneer family, are entertaining and educational classics of children’s literature. One especially memorable incident involves a childish bit of deceit Laura tries out on her father. As I recall it, young Laura solemnly promises him she won’t slide down a recently constructed haystack. Then, as soon as his back is turned, she climbs the haystack and has a wonderful time rolling down it. This, of course, does as much damage to the haystack as sliding would have done, but when confronted later by “Pa” she righteously insists that she kept her promise. She didn’t slide down the haystack, you see…

It’s a funny story because it portrays the innocent brashness of children and their fungible conception of truth.

When an adult approaches truth that way, it’s less amusing.

Paul Ryan (in video clip): When he visited that plant, candidate Obama said, ‘I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another hundred years.’ That’s what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day.

Reporter: You know, Eric, that the decision to close that plant was made in June of 2008, when President Bush was in office. What Paul Ryan said there was clearly misleading.

Eric Fehrnstrom: Well, no, he didn’t talk about Obama closing the plant. He said candidate Obama went there in 2008. And what he said was, ‘with government assistance, we can keep this plant open for another hundred years. Here we are four years into his administration and that plant is still closed…

Adults understand -- or should understand -- the complexity of lies. Frame a statement in just the right way, and it can qualify as a lie because its intent is to deceive. In Ryan's case, he framed the account of Obama visiting the factory in a manner intended to mislead the listener into believing that A) The plant closed during Obama's presidency and B) Obama had promised that he would keep the factory open. Neither is true, of course, but Fehrnstrom's reaction, when confronted with it, is similar to the child, Laura Ingalls Wilder's faux innocent reaction when her father finds the wrecked haystack.

“Paul Ryan didn’t slide down that haystack,” says Paul Fehrnstrom. “He rolled down it.”

And this, people, is apparently the approach to the truth that Republicans have quite consciously adopted. "We’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers," announced Romney Pollster Neil Newhouse. Remember the Jon Kyl campaign defending a brazen lie he told about Planned Parenthood by saying it was "‘not intended to be a factual statement?" That was just the beginning.

It's only going to get worse. Even if the Republicans lose this election (and I think it's very likely they will) they'll just come back in 2016 even further to the right and even further on the wrong side of the truth. The right wing is nothing if not ambitious.

This is not about winning an election. It's about altering a society's concept of what is moral, and what is just. It's about changing the American public's very conception of what qualifies as "truth."

George Orwell just got it wrong by 32 years.

Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes

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Comments

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Aren't all elections about altering the truth at some level? I mean the GOP was the ones at one point advocating the individual mandate in the modern form before they decided it was treason of the vilest sort. The Democrats advocated ending the imperial Presidency for eight years and then they got the Executive Branch and that agitation against the inevitable dictatorship withered on the vine.

[paft.livejournal.com]

U: Aren't all elections about altering the truth at some level?

Not to this extent.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's not like Presidents ran on non-existent missile gaps that they knew did not exist for the purposes of fear-mongering, or promising to provide non-existent economic miracles through Voodoo Economics, or for that matter promising that "he kept us out of war."

This of course is not by any means to defend what these yahoos do, especially when the Yahoo is both Catholic and Randian (which is logically speaking impossible, as is any Christian adhering to Rand's ethos for that matter). However there is a point at which we should stop trying for the apocalypse every four years and recognize that not all elections are about the end of the world.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

So you're saying that elections are about altering the truth at some level, not just to this extent? So where should the line be drawn? Where, at least for you, are you comfortable with the line?

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

It's bad enough when politicians lie about what they promise what they'll do if/when elected, but to make up such blatant falsehoods about their opponent and to keep repeating them even after it's been demonstrated as false... that's just beyond the pale IMO. It's disgusting behavior and it's become the GOP's SOP for some time now.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

Little House is full of stuff like that. Like when they're doing the work of farming. "Laura worked in the fields. It was hot. 'Time for dinner,' Laura's mother called." Oh, that was hard.


I do like to see that CNN appears to be recognizing that it's not enough to just regurgitate press statements.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

The fact checkers are having a field day with Ryan's speech. Some of them are just such distortions of known facts. You're seeing it here already, but the "oh big deal both sides do this" false equivalency is such utter crap. And here is another sample of it:



Senator Kelly Ayotte (New Hampshire - R) was interviewed by David Gregory and the video is here. (http://presspass.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/30/13570846-press-pass-sen-kelly-ayotte-r-nh#.UD-3Xp9SRSU.livejournal)

She's great at dodging questions. When she was talking about how many pro-choice Republicans were speaking at the RNC, David Gregory had to interject and ask her how many Republican candidates have supported pro choice this cycle. Her snap back? "Well how many pro life speakers will address the Democratic convention next week in Charlotte?" When asked about all the debt ran up under Republican administrations, she said at least VP nominee Paul Ryan "had some ideas" and was courageous (his plan would add trillions and would take sixty years to be effective, that's real courage?) and she instead blamed Harry Reid (LUL what?) and the Senate. It's like GASP, all these people have talking points!

It's an entertaining interview, but I wished Mr. Gregory wasn't such a push-over.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Another great article about Paul Ryan's lies here: http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/187913/fox-news-calls-paul-ryan-a-liar/

Even foxnews.com says he's deceiving.

A few choice exerpts:

"Fact: While Ryan tried to pin the downgrade of the United States’ credit rating on spending under President Obama, the credit rating was actually downgraded because Republicans threatened not to raise the debt ceiling.

Fact: Though Ryan insisted that President Obama wants to give all the credit for private sector success to government, that isn't what the president said. Period.

Fact: Though Paul Ryan accused President Obama of taking $716 billion out of Medicare, the fact is that that amount was savings in Medicare reimbursement rates (which, incidentally, save Medicare recipients out-of-pocket costs, too) and Ryan himself embraced these savings in his budget plan.

Ryan didn’t mention his extremist stance on banning all abortions with no exception for rape or incest, a stance that is out of touch with 75% of American voters.

Ryan didn’t mention his previous plan to hand over Social Security to Wall Street.

Ryan didn’t mention his numerous votes to raise spending and balloon the deficit when George W. Bush was president.

Ryan didn’t mention how his budget would eviscerate programs that help the poor and raise taxes on 95% of Americans in order to cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires even further and increase — yes, increase —the deficit. "

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Yeah my favorite was Ryan blaming Obama for not taking Simpson-Bowles seriously. But however, coma! (http://www.enewspf.com/opinion/36101-fact-check-ryan-advised-gop-leaders-not-to-work-with-the-president-to-reduce-deficit.html)

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

The only defense I've heard for all this is about the plant one, republican publications aren't touching the other lies.

edit: Oh you just said this in another comment.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

In Ryan's case, he framed the account of Obama visiting the factory in a manner intended to mislead the listener into believing that A) The plant closed during Obama's presidency and B) Obama had promised that he would keep the factory open.

First, you are guessing that he intended that, and you are basing that guess on the fact that you (and the reporter apparently) came to that conclusion, even though Eric is quite correct that he didn't actually say anything of the sort. So, because you misinterpreted what was said means that he intended you to misinterpret what he said? To me, that's insane thinking.

This is not about winning an election. It's about altering a society's concept of what is moral, and what is just.

The right is well behind the left on that curve.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

Seriously. I wonder how long it will take them to realize that they're the new moral majority, and the rest of us are sinners going to hell intolerant hate-filled misogynist bigots.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Looks the right is suffering from a bad case of projection.

Still waiting for some examples from gunslinger of prominent liberals advocating the extermination or deportation of all right wingers.

[bikinisquad3000.livejournal.com]

So what's the correct interpretation, then? (Supplementary questions: Why do you think the Obama quote was truncated in the manner it was, and why the imprecise description of when the plant closed?)

[paft.livejournal.com]

g: First, you are guessing that he intended that, and you are basing that guess on the fact that you (and the reporter apparently) came to that conclusion, even though Eric is quite correct that he didn't actually say anything of the sort. So, because you misinterpreted what was said means that he intended you to misinterpret what he said? To me, that's insane thinking.

No, just an adult interpretation of what was said and the reaction to it.

I guess you get really confused in those old gangster movies when Edgar G. Robinson walks into a speakeasy, looks around,and snarls, "Nice place ya got here. Be a shame if someone burned it down!" I mean, geez louise, the guy is COMPLIMENTING the bar owner! He's expressing concern for his well being. What kind of silly person would misinterpret it as a threat?

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

I grew up with a crush on Nellie Oleson.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Haha.



Thanks to weswilson for this.

The same time Clint was having an argument with an empty chair, the White House Tweeted this:

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

seems Mr. Eastwood struck a nerve.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

Exact quote from Obama's speech at the GM plant in 2008: "And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years. The question is not whether a clean energy economy is in our future, it’s where it will thrive. I want it to thrive right here in the United States of America; right here in Wisconsin; and that’s the future I’ll fight for as your President."

"[The Janesville GM Assembly Plant] employed around 7,000 workers at its peak in 1970, but was down to about 1,200 when it was largely idled in December 2008, with only 57 employees left when it completely ceased production in April 2009." [Source 1] (http://tinyurl.com/d65exsn) [Source 2]

Barack Obama was sworn into office on January 20, 2009. Therefore, the GM Assembly Plant in Janesville, WI did close during the Obama administration.

This is not about winning an election. It's about altering a society's concept of what is moral, and what is just. It's about changing the American public's very conception of what qualifies as "truth." - And no one is trying to do that except YOU. Nice try!

[paft.livejournal.com]

The decision to close it was made during the Bush administration. I realize a lot of right wingers love to pretend that those of us who support Obama believe he has supernatural powers, but resurrecting a single factory once it's been shut down in that manner is not easy or even practical. Do you feel the government should have simply taken over the property?

No, the conception of the social contract I've cited in my entries is not something I invented. The notion that society's role includes seeing to the welfare of ene very poor, or that someone who works 40 hours a week should be able to afford such basics as food, shelter and medical care, or that it's Inhumane and cruel to torture prisoners is not just mine. It's something most western industrialized nations advocate and something the, until relatively recently, we as a nation advocated.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

I didn't know you guys were in favor of nationalizing private industries.

[blondebaroness.livejournal.com]

Surely someone who can lower the seas and heal the land could reopen that GM plant....

I'm a big fan of Laura Ingalls Wilder. (Did you know she carried a revolver in her pocket?)

[paft.livejournal.com]

No doubt someone who could do such things would be able to. What does this have to do with President Obama?