[identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
Having had a lot of spare hours at the nursery in recent days, I figured I could fill that time with something useful. In my attempt to maintain some decent level of knowledge in Turkish, I just finished reading a book that caused a lot of controversy a few years ago, and which made me thinking:

http://www.ilknokta.com/urun/76899/Allahin-Kizlari.html


The picture you see here depicts three important pre-Islamic female deities that were very revered in Mecca before the time of Muhammad: el-Lat, el-Uzza and Manat. Nedim Gürsel made them the protagonists of his book, telling the story of the creation of Islam from a slightly different perspective. But he did something much more "blasphemous": he was the first Turkish author who dared to make the prophet Muhammad the protagonist in a fiction book as well. And, no surprise, this angered lots of Muslims, who believe he has insulted their faith.

Apart from Yaşar Kemal and Orhan Pamuk, Nedim Gürsel is among the most prominent authors in modern Turkish literature. But in 2008 he stood trial in his country for his audacity. The authorities accused him of "insulting religion". The Muslim religion, of course. I doubt they'd have gotten so worked up, had he done that to some other religion, but I digress. Thankfully, he was acquitted eventually. But meanwhile the Daughters of Allah had managed to raise some questions about faith, and violence within Islam.

In a nutshell, the book tells the story of a young boy's first steps into Islam, as he's introduced to the faith by his grandfather. There are some autobiographic nuances in there, that's for sure. Gürsel describes episodes of his own childhood, the fears he experienced after being told frightening religious stories about bloodshed, punishment and torture as Islam was being born and pushed through.

The story also includes the three goddesses, the daughters of Allah. El-Lat, el-Uzza and Manat are given their voices back by the author, so they could tell three versions about the origin of Islam at the time of the prophet Muhammad. I'm talking about the polytheistic Arab society before Islam, where the many desert clans worshipped many deities; Allah is already there, but he's still far away, and high in the heavens. And he decides he should send messengers to Earth - the daughters of Allah, who will herald the coming of monotheism, and the greatness of the Arab civilization.

Before Islam, the three Semitic goddesses had been very venerated in Mecca. But after the advent of Islam, they were cast down, ignored, even hated. Their statues were destroyed, and all depictions of the one and only deity were forbidden. Monotheism ruled supreme from there on. By re-introducing the three, Nedim Gürsel wants to remind the readers about the role of women in the Islamic society.

There was a big drama in Muhammad's life, and it was that he had no male heirs. And that was really something humiliating in the early Arab society. The prophet suffered from this fact a lot, and it brought lots of troubles after his death, during the war of succession, and the subsequent schisms in Islam. Gürsel doesn't miss to mention this personal drama in his book, and gives a literature expression of the inheritance problem, intertwining it with the status of women in pre-Islam and Islam. In fact, the situation of women was even worse in the former type of society than it is now, a little known fact today, especially in the West.

Like I said, the author put a lot of elements from his own childhood in the boy's narrative. As the boy makes his way into the mysteries of Islam, we begin to understand the reasons why the author himself had made his way out of religion. Because today he labels himself agnostic. He says the magic of the holy words narrating the religious stories still remain as fascinating as ever, but now he has realized that God, his ways and his very existence, are something beyond the human's comprehension. God could be there, or he could not be there, and there's no way to know that. Ironically, until his 50th year Gürsel was a sworn materialist, but with time the metaphysical questions had been mounting in his head, and so he splashed them all in a book that would cover the questions of faith and meanwhile tell the story of the loss of faith, and explore the reasons.

The Daughters of Allah came out in Turkey in 2008. Many people liked it for the questions it was putting, and the way it made the reader contemplate about faith and morality. But there are those many who outright reject it. The trial against Nedim Gürsel on charges of "insult against faith" is quite telling. It's supposed to be a surprise, because Turkey is supposed to be a secular society. But I can understand that most who are reading this, are not surprised at all. No one is supposed to get sued for blasphemy in a secular society, right? People are supposed to be asking critical questions on religion, since they live in a "democracy". And telling the story of the prophet Muhammad, even if a fictional one, is quite a challenge in its own worth.

By the way Gürsel is indeed the first Turkish writer to dare make Muhammad the protagonist in a fictional novel. And this is related to his childhood as well. As a child, he heard lots of parables about the prophet, and they've been stuck in his head ever since. As for the trial itself, it's still good news that he was acquitted. This gives us some hope that in Turkey, secularism is still very much alive and strong, although there are now some fanatical circles rearing their head. After all, people should chill and remember that the novel is just a product of the author's imagination. And that's exactly how it should be perceived, no more. It's not a call for throwing down Islam, not even satire like the Muhammad cartoons, but an attempt to make people ask themselves some questions. It doesn't necessarily have the pretense to provide the answers, but it's at least worth stopping for a minute from the daily routine and pondering for a while. If Turkey is as open a society as it claims to be, then it should be none of the state's business to tell people what they could or couldn't think.

Problem is, Gürsel has probably gone "too far" with his asking of inconvenient questions. He has also suggested to his compatriots to accept the past mistakes in their history, including the Armenian genocide. Which, he believes, is the only way they could move on. But so far, they're having none of it.

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/12 17:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Turkey may not be fullfilling Orwell's criteria to become a "1984 state" yet, but many of the elements of the state Islamism promoted by Erdogan are easily recognizable. Only, the Ministry of Truth in this case is called the Ministry of Justice. You speak Turkish, you'll know what I mean (http://www.kaosgl.com/sayfa.php?id=11314).

Sociologist Pinar Selek (http://www.omct.org/human-rights-defenders/urgent-interventions/turkey/2012/03/d21691/) who's been accused of organizing bomb plots more than once (while having nothing to do with any terrorist group), probably knows this better than anyone. Her real crime? Speaking the truth. She wrote what everybody in Turkey already knows very well, but dares not pronounce: "We have a fundamental problem about democracy in Turkey. It is manifested through humiliating the Armenians, Kurds, and the contempt for women. And this sexism goes hand in hand with militarism and nationalism".

> secularism is still very much alive and strong, although there are now some fanatical circles rearing their head

The radical Islamist movement Gülen (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13503361) is gradually gaining positions and turning into the main media power, setting the general tone and defining what's acceptable as "truth" in the media landscape. Gülen is a worldwide sect of Islamist chauvinists, always eager to underline the superiority of Islam over the other faiths, and structured much like a corporation, ruled ruthlessly by its leaders.

The Reporters Sans Frontieres ranks Turkey 148th out of 178 in the World Press Freedom (http://bianet.org/english/world/135713-turkey-loses-ground-again-in-world-press-freedom-index) list, behind such nice countries like Zimbabwe, Bangladesh and Ukraine. And slipping down rapidly.

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/12 18:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Looks like Turkey is becoming more Iran-like.

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/12 20:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayjayuu.livejournal.com
Very interesting, thank you for posting. I love to learn new stuff about the world.

*US-centrism ahead*

What I fail to understand, generally (not about your post), is how other countries can be so completely racist/sexist/religiofacist (did I make up that word?)/etc., and yet the US is always pointed to and talked about as The Worst Offender Of All Space And Time.

Makes me pretty angry. I'm trying to step away from anger, so I'll step away from this post. Just had to put words to my feelings.

*US-centrism off*

Again, thank you.

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/12 20:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
The US is pointed for all the real and/or perceived discrepancies between its stated principles and those occasions when those turn out to be just words IRL. Naturally, most often the ones pointing at the US are not exactly the likes of Turkey, or Saudi Arabia, and for a good reason. They're the ones who largely share the American values, and who often suffer from the same illnesses.

Often those pointing at the US don't see the beam in their own eye, granted. But often those criticisms are indeed warranted, and come from a good intention. A friend's function is not to applaud you anytime, even when you fuck up. Friends are for telling you the inconvenient truths right in your eyes, in hope that you'd listen and do amends. Because they care. If they didn't, they'd just laugh at you. And in doing all this, those friends would expect no less from you, and indeed the US has never shied away from pointing at them either, whenever they fuck up. It's a two-way process. Making a fuss about it is not a constructive response.

how other countries can be so completely racist/sexist/religiofacist

But the OP said,
The Daughters of Allah came out in Turkey in 2008. Many people liked it for the questions it was putting, and the way it made the reader contemplate about faith and morality.

Apparently, this particular country is not completely racist/sexist/religiofascist. Although it may be slowly walking down that road at the moment, granted. But I still don't believe it'll slide all the way down. There are enough reasonable and good people with a sense of honour there who'd counter these processes. And the best argument in support of such a prediction is that Turkey is now part of a globalised world. And it cannot afford to keep its ears and eyes closed to what's happening outside. Whether those retrograde factors who now rule in Turkey like it or not, the tide can't be turned. The Turkish society will be changing with the generations, despite all efforts from above to turn it into something grotesque and Medieval.

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/12 21:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
You're talking of urban Turkey. In that case I'd agree with you. But the "core" Turkey, the one outside the two (three?) big cities is pretty much Medieval in many respects. I remember luvdovz writing a recent post (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1497805.html) about it.

The Turkish TV soapies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCm%C3%BC%C5%9F) that've flooded our TV space in recent years only reveal a pinky-rosy version of Turkey. We see the big mansions and the posh limos of their middle- and upper-class. But step outside Istanbul, Ankara and Izmir, and you're entering another world.

A lot of time will have to pass and a long procession of generations will have to happen before that changes fundamentally. And mind you, now that it's a state policy to be neo-Ottoman in all mores, it'll be even more difficult to get back to modernity. Turkey is trying to craft a new model (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1182049.html) for itself like you've said yourself. And that model may not be very much to your or my liking. "But it'll be their own model", yeah I've heard that argument. Except, Iran and North Korea have their own models too, and look how nicely that works for them!

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/12 21:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
That's a concern, yes. That the present change is being institutionalised and legitimised at a state level, and the government is embracing it as a model for its society that's supposed to have lasting consequences. A transformation that diverges away from the democratic principles.

The reasons for this are complex, like the Turkish society itself.

Geopolitical: the end of the Cold War is finally taking effect, and the shifting of power balances in the Middle east makes Turkey see itself as a potential mediator and balancer in the region, and so a unique Turkish model could be its trump card which it could promote abroad to gain more influence. It's already doing having that effect for Egypt.

Economic: Turkey is becoming the juggernaut of both Eastern Europe and the Middle East, a factor no one could bypass, and it is in the strong position to dictate the terms now. Some argue that Turkey could be the savior of the EU project, if the EU leaders weren't so blind to see it. But there are strong objections to that as well.

Social: neither the liberal-democratic Western model has seemed to work too well, nor the autocratic ones in pre-Arab-Spring regimes. And certainly not the theocratic Iranian model. So Turkey is creating something inbetween, neither like the former nor exactly like the latter. And neither the West nor the Middle East would necessarily like it very much.

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/12 21:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Simplest reason why they've quit trying to impose the Western model onto themselves: the West rejected them. "You're not Western enough for us". "Well then you know what, fuck you".

I'd have done the same, tbh. Although both sides are to blame for this failed marriage. Neither the West really ever wanted Turkey to be part of the "club", nor did Turkey do much to understand what was required of it in order to enter.

And now when Europe is fucked and Turkey is standing strong, they can afford to show'em the middle finger. As much as I fear their geopolitical motives, I can't help but snigger at that.

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/12 23:02 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayjayuu.livejournal.com
But the OP said,
"The Daughters of Allah came out in Turkey in 2008. Many people liked it for the questions it was putting, and the way it made the reader contemplate about faith and morality."

Apparently, this particular country is not completely racist/sexist/religiofascist. Although it may be slowly walking down that road at the moment, granted.


I usually try to separate the people from the government in my mind. The people who liked the direction the book was taking did not put him on trial, nor did they have the power to stop it.

Try this experiment:

Apparently, [the US] is not completely racist/sexist/religiofascist. Although it may be slowly walking down that road at the moment, granted. But I still don't believe it'll slide all the way down. There are enough reasonable and good people with a sense of honour there who'd counter these processes.

Not directed at you in particular, just using the words. How often are these sentiments expressed about my country, from both outside and within? Usually, not. Usually it's *outrage outrage blather burn blather outrage foam-at-the-mouth*. (Please don't think I'm saying you do this.) From friends and enemies alike. From Democrats about their issues, from Republicans about theirs.

It's all well and good to speak these grand words about how friends don't let friends be a racist society. But at the risk of invoking the tone argument, if there are no kindnesses shown, or progress isn't pointed out and simply allowed to flourish, then growth stops because it's all hitting a wall of hateful words.

Well, this has gone off-topic from the OP, so I'll stop here.

(no subject)

Date: 20/8/12 00:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allhatnocattle.livejournal.com
I think you posed an excellent question/concern and I think [livejournal.com profile] luvduvz responded with a clear answer.

There are many things wrong within the world and the USA is not a above these problems. No nation is ideal or a utopia.

USA in particular promotes itself as a fortress of freedom. Contrary to former President Bush's assertions, nobody hates America for it's freedom, but instead is severely criticized for the freedoms it denies. The solutions to these issues are many and varied and are bantered about every election cycle. But the end goal of Utopia remains elusive.

(no subject)

Date: 20/8/12 05:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
Not so much offtopic, I think the points you're making are valid.

How often are these sentiments expressed about my country, from both outside and within? Usually, not. Usually it's *outrage outrage blather burn blather outrage foam-at-the-mouth
I can't speak for everybody who has ever talked about your country. Perhaps you've been lurking around the wrong foreign people ;)

From friends and enemies alike.
I explained how I understand true friendship.

these grand words about how friends don't let friends be a racist society.
That's not what I said.

Tell you what. Progress is acknowledged through actions, rather than words. Think about it. Thousands of people flock to your country annually, hoping for a better life. If that's not the best testimony that you guys are doing something right, then I don't know what is. "Words are just... wind", like GRRM said :)

Kindnesses are not to be trusted. Franknesses, are.
Edited Date: 20/8/12 06:08 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 20/8/12 07:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
Friends are for telling you the inconvenient truths right in your eyes, in hope that you'd listen and do amends. Because they care. If they didn't, they'd just laugh at you. And in doing all this, those friends would expect no less from you

Meanwhile, there are those who only call themselves your friend, until they sense even the slightest hint of criticism, which they would then dismiss outright, on grounds of... I don't know, tone argument? "How dare you criticize me so arrogantly, I don't like your arrogance". WTF.

(no subject)

Date: 20/8/12 03:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crystallinegirl.livejournal.com
Any idea where I can find this book in English? The only version Amazon seems to have is in Spanish.

(no subject)

Date: 20/8/12 17:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
The story of the life of Muhammad is fascinating, especially since it involves interaction with a variety of different cultures and religious traditions. What I find curious is that Gürsel focuses on native Arabic religion rather than the native religion of Central Asia at the time of the Muslim conquest. Perhaps he feels more ethnically rooted in Arabic culture. In Iran, the Shahnameh plays a significant role in keeping in touch with pre-Muslim national culture. It includes some material on the Zoroastrian tradition.

(no subject)

Date: 21/8/12 05:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] root-fu.livejournal.com
When you say Nedim was a sworn materialist until the age of 50, what you're really saying is he was an atheist?

In which case his transition was one beginning in religion, later converting to atheism. Then, in his old age he became agnostic on the basis that faith in religion was no better than faith in atheism. And that perhaps agnosticism is the only rational and logical stance on the issue.

(no subject)

Date: 21/8/12 08:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
what you're really saying is he was an atheist?

Nope, but nice try. ;)

(no subject)

Date: 22/8/12 00:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] root-fu.livejournal.com
Materialists are usually atheists.

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