[identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics

Maybe this will be relevant in a way to the monthly topic, the future development of the world. Because war and the military is an essential part of society, and there've been some well noticeable trends there in the recent years. First of all, here's a curious review of some of the largest private armies that now exist in the world:

A Look At The Largest Private Armies In The World

Mercenaries, or "private contractors" as is the new PC term now, have been part of warfare through all stages of human history. In fact I'd say citizen-army is a relatively recent development in comparison. Well, there are many ethical and purely strategic issues involved in privatizing warfare. From the question to whom do they owe their allegiance, since they're being paid for by private companies; to the question how effective they can be in a tough military situation. I'm no expert, but still, here are some scattered musings.

Apparently, one of the stated reasons for privatizing warfare is the expenses for maintaining a government-funded military. The argument here is that the US cannot be present in all corners of the world, it's getting strained thin when it has to fight in several places at once (Afghanistan, Iraq).

The other problem stems from the ineptness of local governments to strengthen their own military (Afghanistan). That's the reason the developed nations who have some interest in those particular regions, go in and fund these governments to provide security there (Pakistan), thus legitimizing those governments/regimes as a side effect (Yemen). It's like a cycle: you fund your chosen side, you legitimize it diplomatically on the international scene, so it starts looking worth funding, as opposed to a mere collection of jerks who'll just misappropriate the funds (Libya). Many regimes have been born and maintained that way (Chile), up to the point where they've become expendable, hence brought down (Egypt).

Making a killing: how private armies became a $120bn global industry

This author makes an argument worth thinking about, as it causes concerns about private security contractors. They operate in a grey area which frequently borders on the limits of law. There's a problem with setting and adhering to proper standards of accountability. Governments outsourcing their duties in defense/offense to private contractors could afford to pay the higher price for highly trained mercenaries, then have them do the dirty job, and then if/when those screw up and the shit hits the fan, said government could conveniently wash its hands by saying it never commissioned those particular actions, and it was the private company who did it. There's no one to blame but the company alone, full stop. As the "high-ranking US military commander" cited in the article says, "Those guys run loose in this country and do stupid stuff. There's no authority over them".

While I wouldn't go as far as to claim that governments (especially the US one) are any sort of moral institutions, they at least have it as part of their job to perform actions that are morally acceptable to the people electing them into office in the first place. And of course to have some sort of accountabiliy mechanism and oversight. Having a certain code of conduct that takes into account the popular mores of said society. In the meantime, same could not necessarily be said about the mercenaries hired by private corporations. Nothing binds them to particular codes of conduct, moral codes, etc, save the internal rules of said corporation, which stem from its private interests. Which do not necessarily match those of society.

And then there's the reliability problem, which originates in the uncertain nature of the mercenary's allegiances. Because history has often shown that mercenaries are inherently unreliable and tricky to use, as one could find themselves faced against an army that they had previously used for their purposes. A similar problem arises when using ideologically divergent proxy armies - one has to always keep such a proxy, or a group of mercenaries, on a very short leash, unless you like being stabbed in the back when you least expect it. Because the bottom line in hired labor is money, not allegiance to any cause, nation, code, or honor.

Case in point: Iraq. Again, I'm not very well versed in this particular domain, but from what I could gather from people who've been inside the kitchen of events for some time, it would seem that independent contractors there have found themselves amidst frequent scandals due to their bad reputation for military standards and abuse that has caused rage and hatred both among regular troops and the local population alike. And that has already begun taking some pretty grotesque proportions.

Here's some interesting read: One Nation Under Contract. According to author Allison Stanger, mercenaries now account for roughly 50% of all American troops deployed overseas in war zones. Granted, not all of them are combatants. Let's make one thing very clear. It's one thing to do the laundry and provide transportation and security for important persons, it's quite another to be at the frontline and do the actual fighting. But the latter is also becoming a priority of the private contractors, especially in Iraq where the regular troops have left.

The author touches on several key moments:

1) The US is pouring billions of dollars to outsource its military, including payments under the table to coalition partners without disclosing how much has been spent and what exactly it's being given for. And that, at a time when everybody in the US is bickering about taxpayers' money being spent for bail-outs, etc. Whenever the issue of cutting the military budget is even remotely touched, both sides of the aisle raise their voices to the heavens and do their best to stop the debate in its roots. That must tell us something.

2) There are two arguments being given in defense of outsourcing the military: it spares American lives, and it spares the military budget. Well, the latter isn't exactly correct, because these mercenaries are in fact paid substantially more than American soldiers to essentially do the same job, and it's doubtful they do it more efficiently. Only, this time there are huge private business interests involved as well, making billions in the process.

3) Payments to these mercenaries divert funds away from domestic programs and initiatives related to the military and those of service, and that's one of the root causes for the financial cutbacks (example: Wisconsin) that are being done in order to avoid having to draft soldiers from the US population.

So, I guess the final question of this diatribe is: is paying mercenaries from public coffers preferable to conscripting potentially unwilling soldiers or conversely, promoting more investment in the regular military? I'd be particularly interested to hear from soldiers / ex-soldiers on this issue, and not necessarily from US ones only. Thanks in advance.

(no subject)

Date: 18/6/12 17:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Steve Fairnu wrote an interesting book (http://books.google.com/books?id=z1Zro-gfvjEC&lpg=PP1&dq=Big%20Boy%20Rules&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=Big%20Boy%20Rules&f=false) on these private operators in Iraq. One of the aspects that he details is the poor discipline and the consequent atrocities committed by some of them.

On the upside, they employ people who would not be happy in any non-violent profession.

(no subject)

Date: 18/6/12 17:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 404.livejournal.com
In every game I've played that involved PMCs, they were always the bad guys.

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Date: 18/6/12 17:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blue-mangos.livejournal.com
Image problem. Fucking Blackwater.

(no subject)

Date: 18/6/12 17:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 404.livejournal.com
I know! Just last week I saw a PMC agent helped a little old lady across the street, too bad afterwards he called in a drone attack on the market she was going to because of a suspected terrorist was seen shopping there for falafel a few minutes earlier.

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Date: 18/6/12 20:31 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caerbannogbunny.livejournal.com
The nice thing about using mercenaries as bad guys in books and games is you don't piss off people of other nationalities and you have a legit reason for having a large group of well-funded and well-organized armed men running around. Otherwise, you're either inferring a huge inability to manage crime (if the bad guys are organized criminals) and/or terrorism while limiting yourself to a simple "a vs. b" conflict when you could have had a much more interesting "a vs. b vs. c" or "(a vs. b) vs. c" plot dynamic opening the potential for later "a + b vs. c" or "(a + b) vs. c --> a vs. (b + c)".

So, it's all about getting sales, not pissing off the politicals, and good plot options...

(no subject)

Date: 18/6/12 18:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fierceleaf.livejournal.com
The one big problem with army outsourcing is that will probably increase the US public tolerance for military casualties.

This may make military elites more determined to attack bad regimes. And, as usual, this will wreak havoc instead of bringing democracy.

(no subject)

Date: 18/6/12 18:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fierceleaf.livejournal.com
Let's play another round. Are there any more barbarous countries which do not possess nuclear weapons?

I see blood and destruction.

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Date: 18/6/12 19:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
I don't think the USA is necessarily casualty-phobic if it faced a situation deemed worthy of spending American lives. If anything the long history of the US Army has been one where US generals are perfectly willing to send their armies to take 100% casualty rates for no real results.

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Date: 18/6/12 19:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fierceleaf.livejournal.com
But today, with twitter, Facebook and YouTube we have the the overly-sensitive society. Such generals just won't get away with it.

My premise is that the public is gullible into the belief that bombing the property of citizens of bad regime is a good thing. But it is hard to conceive that people today will ignore massive deaths of soldiers. It seems like there is a kind of tension in the public opinion that prevents military people from new operations.

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Date: 18/6/12 20:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caerbannogbunny.livejournal.com
Can you cite examples?

Just out of curiosity...

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Date: 18/6/12 18:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com
I've only known two mercenaries, so I couldn't generalize. But both of them were scumbags.

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Date: 18/6/12 19:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
It seems that the ultimate result of the evolution of the pricey weapons of a real army is a revival of the relatively cheaper mercenaries. Indeed nothing is new under the Sun. I think that the revival of the mercenaries is less a question of ethics and more a warning that with the revival of the mercenary impulse with it would return the concept of the eternal, perpetual war ala the 80 Years' War or the 30 Years' War. Because this particular type could easily enable Great Powers to go to war with each other if ever the situation again rose that they would (which is probable on the level that Mjolnir suddenly falls from the sky, but it's still probable).

(no subject)

Date: 18/6/12 19:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
New icon, lol!

(no subject)

Date: 18/6/12 20:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caerbannogbunny.livejournal.com
I think the modern evolution of (non-logistical) mercenaries is the same old reason: To be effective now, most soldiers have to be controllably violent, well-trained, and technically savvy, often with very specific skill sets which are both perishable and in demand in other fields (combat experience, foreign language training, etc.)

Your idea about "eternal, perpetual war" isn't exactly right, but it's more a reflection of preparedness for war--because of the skillsets, selection process, and training--has to be an ongoing thing, otherwise you're likely unable to meet these requirements in a short term. You literally can't--in the modern world--do what they did in the past to prepare for a war. You can't take a tiny cadre of professional soldiers, put them on a post with a whole bunch of draftees and have a credible fighting force at the end of 6 months. You can end up with some decent infantry companies and platoons, but just the training for the support personnel on modern equipment like infantry fighting vehicles (IFV's) takes 6 months without any experience, training for combat, etc.

When you go above the company level (100-300 men), you're talking a whole new level of training just to keep those connected and going.

Which is where mercenaries come in. They typically are "collecting grounds" with a financial incentive for previously trained military personnel. The corporate model is basically to capitalize on the training these guys have already had, keep them available and out of competing arenas, and fill them in where necessary. This is why Blackhawk was in VIP protection, most of the protectors were former Delta Force, SEAL's, and other US special operators. They had the training already and the security clearances, and often a lot of experience doing the same job from the military. The only difference was they got paid more and they didn't have to play the military game of rotating out to train new recruits or an administrative tour somewhere so they could get promoted, etc.

So, when you say it's about pricey weapons, I disagree, it's more about pricey training and a smaller pool of talent for non-logistical mercenaries and--for logistical mercenaries (cooks, truck drivers, etc.)--it's about the cheapness of training and the huge pool of talent you would otherwise have to pay a lot more for if you put them in a volunteer military.

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Date: 18/6/12 21:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
Damn, Stalin looks good in shades, dare I say... younger?

(no subject)

Date: 18/6/12 22:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
The American Marines, Army, and Contractors all kinda look the same to a 12 year old kid who's brother is fighting the invading infidel. Whatever the contractors do, whatever bridge they are recovered from, the occupation forces will share the blowback.
Edited Date: 18/6/12 22:05 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 19/6/12 00:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Machiavelli wasn't big on using mercenaries.

"I say, therefore, that the arms with which a prince defends his state are either his own, or they are mercenaries, auxiliaries, or mixed. Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe; for they are disunited, ambitious and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. The fact is, they have no other attraction or reason for keeping the field than a trifle of stipend, which is not sufficient to make them willing to die for you. They are ready enough to be your soldiers whilst you do not make war, but if war comes they take themselves off or run from the foe; which I should have little trouble to prove, for the ruin of Italy has been caused by nothing else than by resting all her hopes for many years on mercenaries, and although they formerly made some display and appeared valiant amongst themselves, yet when the foreigners came they showed what they were. Thus it was that Charles, King of France, was allowed to seize Italy with chalk in hand; 1 and he who told us that our sins were the cause of it told the truth, but they were not the sins he imagined, but those which I have related. And as they were the sins of princes, it is the princes who have also suffered the penalty.

I wish to demonstrate further the infelicity of these arms. The mercenary captains are either capable men or they are not; if they are, you cannot trust them, because they always aspire to their own greatness, either by oppressing you, who are their master, or others contrary to your intentions; but if the captain is not skilful, you are ruined in the usual way.

And if it be urged that whoever is armed will act in the same way, whether mercenary or not, I reply that when arms have to be resorted to, either by a prince or a republic, then the prince ought to go in person and perform the duty of captain; the republic has to send its citizens, and when one is sent who does not turn out satisfactorily, it ought to recall him, and when one is worthy, to hold him by the laws so that he does not leave the command. And experience has shown princes and republics, single-handed, making the greatest progress, and mercenaries doing nothing except damage; and it is more difficult to bring a republic, armed with its own arms, under the sway of one of its citizens than it is to bring one armed with foreign arms. Rome and Sparta stood for many ages armed and free. The Switzers are completely armed and quite free.
"

(no subject)

Date: 19/6/12 05:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danalwyn.livejournal.com
There are a lot of concerns about PMC proliferation, but I can see two big ones that nobody has answered that well:

1) Will PMCs do their job? This is not in the sense of "will they do their job under normal conditions", but an inquiry into what happens when conditions change. The most obvious example is if country A were to hire PMC B to defend certain facilities from all attackers. Somewhere in this time, country A becomes an international pariah, and is invaded by the United States. Will B fight against US troops as mandated by their contract? The US fears that the answer is yes, while prospective country As tend to fear the answer is no. The real question, which will only be answered as time goes on, is how good are PMCs at fighting other PMCs? Will they perform in the field? So far we've mostly been spared finding that out, but prospective employers (and backers) remain nervous.

2) Who is responsible for them? Example - a Serbian mercenary, working for a British PMC, hired by a South African corporation to assist the government of, say, Zambia, goes out and shoots some American prisoners in the head. Who is responsible? Is Zambia? They can claim that they don't have full control over their mercenary troops. They can also claim that lack of authority as a reason why they won't extradite him. Is South Africa? They can rightly claim that this happened outside their borders. Is the corporation? They can point at the PMC. The PMC can point at the mercenary, or at the government of Zambia, or just ignore everything. For that matter, if a British PMC ends up fighting American troops is that an act of war between the UK and the US, or just an unfortunate act of business? And can business deals force an American PMC to fight American troops? Who tries them if they commit war crimes? Who ends up responsible? Who is even allowed to use them in the first place (answer, probably anyone you want not to shelter them). As long as they stay in internal conflicts things go alright, but the legal mess that awaits is terrifying in its complexity.

Of course there are other, larger, long-term problems, but these are the two tricky ones that I think are important now. Probably the second one especially, although it will only be a matter of time before a foreign contracted PMC does some damage to America, and then the legal wrangle is really going to begin.

(no subject)

Date: 23/6/12 01:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
WWIII. People vs. Corporations.

(no subject)

Date: 23/6/12 07:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Sounds more like Civil War II.

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