Clash of Cultures

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

All right, time to show us how cosmopolitan you are! Here's the bazillionth installment of your fave (ha!) spectacularly hyperbolized hypothetical situations inspired by the [Poll #1846071]

I know I know, you hate all answers. You've gotten used to it by now, I presume. Just remember: beware of the anchor babies!

(You've been warned!!!)

Comments

[muscadinegirl.livejournal.com]

I like five, down to the part where he advocates forcing people to move. That's just ridiculous. However, interacting with and getting to know people one-on-one is the best way to remove prejudices. I've seen that particular method in action.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

That guy sounds a bit extreme, doesn't he?

[hey-its-michael.livejournal.com]

I chose number 5, except for the "forced" move portion.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

The title very much reminds me of George RR Martin. :-)

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

A bunch of Dothraki illegals crossing the border.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Miss Sanchez, because she's hot. :)

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

I like bits of 1,3, and 5.
Strangely enough I have no problem with 2, except wondering about the motives to immigrate in the first place. Interestingly enough, the people I know that are "here" with that attitude are basically here temporarily, and try to assimilate enough to help them to accomplish quicker what they came for in the first place.

Where I live (In Southern California) there are plenty of "ghettos" and "barrios" (in the true sense of the words) where people who don't wish to assimilate can live. (this is not a forced thing, the people CHOOSE to live there) My Peruvian d-i-l's grand-mother doesn't speak English to anyone. (which is good since it's the most Spanish my grand-kids get) but she gets irritated at us for not communicating with her. My other d-i-l's family are Sikh, and have their "quirks" ;).

Actually, if they expect me to cater to them, any more than I expect people in other countries to cater to me, what's the big deal? I felt more comfortable in Israel than in the South, because I know it's different. The interesting thing about America, is one really doesn't have to give up one's heritage to belong here, they just have to WANT to belong here :D

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Motives to immigrate? Not feeling safe for one's life (Syria, Libya) / searching for a way to make ends meet (most of the Third World), etc etc? There are plenty.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I'm sure Native Americans are so glad to know this. What with their going from 100% of the population to 2.5% of the population in the course of US history, having almost all their land stolen, and being subject today to continual racism and discrimination against them. Why they've certainly belonged in US history.....as corpses mutilated for the sake of ProgressTM. And belong only to US history, not to the US present. For that would mean recognizing that massacres' legacies don't end just because the "good guys" do them.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I knew that the South was a foreign country before I visited, so it did not surprise me.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Note deleted comment is mine, due to putting it in the wrong place, my comment above is the deleted comment.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Don't be so scared, hehe. :-P

[dwer.livejournal.com]

any libertarian who doesn't vote for #2 is lying to themselves and everyone else.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

Your call has been answered (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1472426.html?thread=118109610#t118109610)!

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

I really want a combination of 3 and 5, except the extreme aspects, which aren't needed. There is a lot that can be done for integration and multiculturalism.
Usually integration also takes time, sometimes a couple of generations, which is something that tend to be forgotten in these kinds of discussions.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that it all comes down to accent. If someone has a similar accent to me, they've integrated, even if they weren't born here. That's not to say that someone with a different accent can't belong (my aunty has been here 40 years and still has a thick Finnish accent), just that it's a good guide. Asking "where are you from" to an Asian person who sounds the same as you is going to end in your embarrassment (as our Who Wants To Be A Millionaire host found out when the answer was "errr, Northcote...")

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

hhahahahahahahaha

terror babies > anchor babies

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

I think the best balance is between 1 and 2, oddly enough.

We shouldn't accommodate immigrants, they should come and join us, but they should not be compelled to assimilate if they don't want to. If they are content to be ghettoized, then so be it. If they want to integrate into the larger society, all the better, in my opinion. But make no mistake, under my system remaining outside the mainstream of the country's culture will limit your potential. For the US, at least, the long term benefits of assimilating into the dominant culture so far out weigh any other consideration that assimilation is almost a foregone conclusion. For better and worse, within two generations new families are monolingual in English, have fully embraced the US culture and have even "Americanized" some of their cherished national traditions into bastardized festivals of drunken debauchery. (Patrick, Rocco, Jose... I'm looking at you.)

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Except Native Americans who have proven very resilient at maintaining their cultures and religions, for all the immense effort dedicated by the country of freedom and opportunity to destroy the first when it applies to them and to deny them the second. Unless you have ancestry from Native Americans of the state you live in, your ancestors weren't from here, and they didn't get that land fairly, as almost everywhere in the Americas and Australia was claimed solely by bad faith and brute force. However as I happen to have ancestors who came over here on the Jamestown colony on both sides of my family, I could also note that I am probably more American in that sense than a good number of the 100% American types in real life and on the Internet, most of whom couldn't even spell the name of the state they live in.

[terminator44.livejournal.com]

I side with #2. Culture has never been homogeneous nor static. #1 and #6 don't realize that their ancestors, at some point in time or another, immigrated to where they now live*. #3, #4, #5 have good intentions but have a warped idea of how immigrants behave in practice. They inevitably gravitate towards others from the same area, both to form a support network and to continue their old customs and practices. Over succeeding generations cultural exchange will occur, naturally and imperceptibly, between natives and immigrants.

*I'm not just talking about the U.S. Think about how the "barbarian invasions" changed Europe, for example.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

Having lived overseas in non-English speaking cultures, the position of #2 seems extremely self-defeating.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

I like 2, 3, and 4. Immigrants shouldn't be forced to assimilate with the dominant culture, public holidays should have secular and unbiased names (i.e. "Winter Holiday" instead of "Christmas"), learning from other people and cultures is a good thing, and fuck yes there should be mandatory educational classes in grade schools and colleges about other countries and cultures. (Also re: 4, yay anthropology students!)

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

"Mandatory"????

Where do you live? In So Cal it's been Spring and Winter break for years.
As long as it's the 25th it kinda has to be Christmas. I suppose we could change it to the 21st and call it Winter Solstice.
It probably be a bad idea to have it on the 18th (?) and call it Saturnalia since then it would still be a religious holiday.

Just out of curiosity, do you object to thanksgiving being a federal holiday?

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

Gretchen van Goebbels, Fareed Zanzibariah, Billy-Boy Maherssonson, Anders Hamburgvik, Rush Limpopo... The choice of names cracks me up!

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

There is a real irony in a discussion on the legitimacy of immigration on the part of any poster from a country who's not of the indigenous people of that country. We are all at some level immigrants, unless we are of those people. These discussions essentially all boil down to "What held true for me must be different for thee because I said so and will move the goalposts forever and a day to keep it so."

[nairiporter.livejournal.com]

There is a real irony in a discussion on the legitimacy of immigration on the part of any poster from a country who's not of the indigenous people of that country.

Depends. Which poster? Which country? What particular position do they hold?

[peamasii.livejournal.com]

#4 makes the most sense, it is always a two-way street. by forcing the majority to learn the culture of every minority, you would in fact enforce integration. it would be a never-ending process, so I guess it's the best solution.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

I like the idea that multiculturalism and integration is a process of moving forward together. I live in one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world and all of those "other" cultures are just as Australian as they are any other -ian. Greek culture in Melbourne (the second largest Greek city in the world, after Athens) is distinctively Australian, it is not Greek. 60 years after the big migrations and a new culture has formed. It's not what existed in Greece in the 50s, nor Australia, nor is it what exists in Greece today or in other parts of Australian society; it is it's own culture, and it is Australian. I'm pretty sure a gyro in Greece isn't know as a "late night lamb sandwich", that's something you get after a distinctively Australian drinking experience.

This is what happens, they become more like us and we become more like them, but because we allow the space for many cultures, many cultures are created and exist alongside each other quite happily.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

You are missing #7: Strat E. Jickhamlet insists that he has the final solution.