Is Zimmerman guilty of Murder?

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

OK I'll be the first to drink the Kool-Aid.

Clearly the best thing to happen is for Zimmerman to be charged. Mob rule is clamoring for this guy's ass. A court of law will make this as clear as the OJ case that Zimmerman's son, er, well..whatever.

Time to go to trial or is he clearly within the SYG law?

Will a jury trial be bigger circus than OJ, now that there is a real internet in place? 

If you were on the jury and you know know what you have heard, would you vote to convict?

Why or why not?

ETA: yup! Pretty much sums it up

Comments

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

finally, someone brave enough to risk the implosion of their inbox over this post!

1. He's going to trial unless he takes a plea, he's been charged with 2nd degree murder. Apparently it will be hard to prove though under SYG.

2. Yes. Oh God yes, this is going to be huge and messy

3. Knowing just what I know now yes I would vote to convict. But there could be all sorts of evidence we have not seen that is shown to a jury. If it were compelling enough and I was on the jury I would have to change my mind.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

AFAIK his lawyer said that he will(or already did) plea not guilty.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

I agree and especially with #3

This is why I wanted this trial, no amount of looking at some grainy security video is going to change anything.

our place in space

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

I know! 400+ and counting. I walk away for 10 minutes and 9 more replies pop up.

I am not sure who is winning, but this is pretty epic. There is a LOT of ground being covered, and no one is getting 'that' nasty.

Perhaps there is hope.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

First, I said it over at the cartoon community, and I'll say it here - I do wonder if the DA is angling for a manslaughter plea, as the evidence that's currently public certainly doesn't lend itself to second degree murder, and she didn't offer anything new tonight. Of course, it's purely speculation.

Time to go to trial or is he clearly within the SYG law?

I've been reading a lot of things about how SYG was probably irrelevant to this, and it was more about basic self-defense. With that said, I suppose this step was inevitable, I'm more surprised at the second degree murder reach.

Will a jury trial be bigger circus than OJ, now that there is a real internet in place?

Absolutely.

If you were on the jury and you know know what you have heard, would you vote to convict?

Why or why not?

Knowing what we know right now, a conviction for second degree murder makes no sense. Manslaughter, yeah, maybe a case can be made for that. This seems like a reach.

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

Maybe she is hoping for a plea, but if he does not take one can she not add other possible charges before trial that the jury can pick from? Like they can choose to convict of second degree murder or manslaughter? Bear in mind my entire knowledge of the US criminal court system comes from Law & Order.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

If you were on the jury and you know know what you have heard, would you vote to convict?

Why or why not?
I would follow the judge's instructions.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Hear, hear!

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

I couldn't say if I'd vote to convict or not until I heard the evidence presented by the lawyers, but the fact he is actually being charged is a big deal.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

I definately think there is sufficient evidence that he committed manslaughter to prosecute him but based on what I have seen to date his acquittal in an actual fair trial is all essentially guaranteed (now whether he gets a fair trial or not is a completely separate matter)

That said SYG is completely and utterly irrelivant as if he qualifies for a self defense claim given the facts of the case known to date he would have qualified for it under either the SYG or the older Duty to Retreat standards.

SYG is an idiotic liberal talking point trying to leverage this case into grounds for more restrictive gun laws.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

That said SYG is completely and utterly irrelivant as if he qualifies for a self defense claim given the facts of the case known to date

Just based on the discussion I have heard in the media, I get the idea that it makes the burden of proof a lot harder to convict with SYG, since his endangerment is more a matter of his own perception, so that without this law, there is no way he could go scot free for shooting down someone who only had a bag of candy, especially when he went chasing after the kid when he was told not to do so.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

If you were on the jury and you know know what you have heard, would you vote to convict?

There's the part between the end of the 911 call and Zimmeman being beaten that to me us unclear, so I don't know.
Prior to that, I'm 95% convinced he didn't even know the kid was black when he called 911, and I'm 99.9% convinced he was beaten.

I'm 100% convinced there have been congressmen and the usual demagogues lying/jumping to conclusions in an extrememely irresponsible manner.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

I'm 95% convinced he didn't even know the kid was black when he called 911

Really? Based on what?

He identifies the kid as a black male twice, first time immediately when asked and the 2nd time unprompted - he offers the information within 1:40 seconds. Its all on tape. That indicates he knows what race he is.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

I don't think he's within the stand your ground law.

I don't know if it will be a circus, but there will be far more involvement by the public.

My vote as a member of the jury depends on the evidence presented at trial. If you're asking if the evidence we've seen so far were presented at trial as is would he be guilty of Murder 2? My answer is "no", but that's because the evidence hasn't all been made public. There's forensic evidence to be presented, and we haven't seen hardly any of that.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

Time to go to trial or is he clearly within
the SYG law?

The SYG law is so murky that I think it's proper for a court of law to weigh the facts here. From my seat it looks like there is enough evidence to at least warrant a preliminary hearing. What worries me is that, in spite of my own beliefs on the matter (Zimmerman looks like a suspicious Aloysius using the neighborhood watch as his own little power trip, but I haven't seen all the evidence, either), I think there will always be some question about the legitimacy of the charges. The public response has been so massive and visceral that it could always be argued that the prosecutor brought charges to placate the howling mob, not because of the evidence. This will be especially true if the charges are dropped or Zimmerman is acquitted. At any rate, this might be the OJ trial of the century.

Will a jury trial be bigger circus than OJ,
now that there is a real internet in
place?

Oh yes. It is going to be insane.

If you were on the jury and you know
know what you have heard, would you
vote to convict?
Why or why not?

Ha...I've heard so much (ranging from Martin was a perfectly peaceful little angel and Zimmerman was a racist lunatic playing out a personal Dirty Harry fantasy who jumped at the chance to ice a punk, to Martin was a violent, drug-addicted thug who attacked Zimmerman without provocation, Zimmerman being a law-abiding God-fearing family-man concerned citizen genuinely in fear of his very life) that I don't know what to think, and going only on what I've heard now I don't think I could even render a decision. I will wait until I see either side's evidence presented in court.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

Time to go to trial or is he clearly within the SYG law?

Time to go to trial. This doesn't mean he won't be within the SYG law, it seems really horrible. There was a recent gang shootout where most of the folks went free under SYG after all.

Will a jury trial be bigger circus than OJ, now that there is a real internet in place?

Hopefully the trail won't be a curcus but there will certainly be a circus surounding the trial.

If you were on the jury and you know know what you have heard, would you vote to convict?

Why or why not?

If I were on the jury and used what I have heard so far, I should be removed from the jury. There's a big difference between evidence and stuff you hear on the internet. Our justice system might have its problems but I'll take it over an internet trial any day.

[oportet.livejournal.com]

It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

- Alonzo Harris, 2001

Seriously though, 100% of us pretty much figure Casey Anthony was guilty, right? This is one county over (I think, someone double-check), and a completely different case - but it will bring about the exact same result for the exact same reason.

Call it justice or call it a waste of time, you're both right.

[musicpsych.livejournal.com]

And this is the state that might decide our presidential elections...

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

If you were on the jury and you know know what you have heard, would you vote to convict?
A juror might want to consider whether his or her home is in an area likely to be trashed by any riots resulting from the verdict. Also, if you're on the jury, how long will it be before your name and address are plastered all over the Internet? If an unpopular verdict is returned, how long will it be before the angry mob shows up on your doorstep, looking to dish out some justice?

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

I think of it like this.

This is going to be messy, but it's far better then Zimmerman - someone who killed a mother's child regardless of motive - being on the run for the rest of his life, and it is far better then a trial by the media like what has been going on for the past month.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

a mother's child

Seriously?

[404.livejournal.com]

1. Probably both. It's better to get a trial than there always being doubt.

2. It's already bigger than OJ was, and will only get bigger thanks to the internet and 24 hour news channels/truTV etc.

3. I couldn't vote either way right now, because I don't trust unbiased sources masquerading as facts. Only after sitting as a juror for the whole case could I make the determination.

[southwest]

I don't know whether Zimmerman is guilty or not, but voting to convict would be a wise political decision.
There is a large segment of black population which is very angry about this case, and a guilty verdict would certainly appease those people and prevent possible civil unrest and further violence.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I have not heard enough to warrant a conviction. Anyone who renders a verdict based on information leaked to the press needs a course in civics.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

*posts a topic titled "Is Zimmerman guilty of Murder?"*

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

If I were on the jury, I'd go by the evidence (whatever that will prove to be). I would not be selected though, because I already know the Florida law is a badly worded piece of crap.

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

Dead Man Walking. Either way.

[404.livejournal.com]

I sure hope that the groups that are calling for justice for Trayvon's death don't agree with that sentiment.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Just want to get on record.

Time to go to trial. Even if he was clearly within the SYG law, the facts of the case have been so muddied, confused and obfuscasted in the public debate shit storm that we need a trial and the rules of evidence in order to make that clear.

I can' t imagine it will be bigger than OJ since Zimmerman isn't really disputing that he killed Martin. There is no mystery here, no romance, no titillating high society gossip. Also, Zimmerman hasn't won a Heisman Trophy or starred in The Naked Gun .franchise. In other news, Martin didn't look like this (http://media.photobucket.com/image/nicole brown simpson/Kim1103/NicoleBrownSimpson.jpg?o=1). This shouldn't matter. But it does.

If I was on the jury and was only presented the evidence I have seen so far, I would not vote to convict. Certainly not 2nd Degree Murder. There just isn't enough evidence to draw a conclusion one way or the other. Could a case be made? I suspect so, or the DA wouldn't have brought the case to trial, but I haven't seen it yet.

[stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com]

Angela Corey is known to be an impeccable prosecutor that pursues the rule of law relentlessly. This may have had a lot to do with the delay of the arrest. Although the case has yet to be tried, you can be sure that the evidence will justify the 2nd degree murder charges, even if there is a different outcome.

I have no doubt there is more to this story than has been revealed.

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

I have nothing of value to add, but perhaps next time you should use this icon instead.

*goes back into hiding*

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

[404.livejournal.com]

Welcome to the 500+ comment club!

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

I am humbled and honored.