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talkpoliticsIf we define fundamentalism as the self-labelled reaction to liberal religion, we will fall into the trap of false perception. What we need is a deeper look at that movement to identify the essential element that causes liberal religion to stop its own forward movement. That is, liberal religion has yet to shed some of the remnants of retrogression that it shares with fundamentalism. Once it breaks these fetters, it can evolve to the next level of cultural development.
The Catholic Church has a long history of including both liberal and fundamentalist tendencies. The Trinity was crafted in such a way that fundamentalist forces could use it to subjugate the populace while monks could continue to live in relative intellectual freedom. I recently encountered an aspect of this while discussing religious icons with a Catholic monk. She was free to recognize spiritual leaders who acted outside the control of Rome. She was also free to share her thoughts with students of a Catholic high school.
On the fundamentalist side of the Church, we can see an institutional bias against free will. Rome has a fundamentalist prejudice against birth control devices. Unlike the fundamentalism of Intelligent Design, this prejudice has no foundation in strict biblical misinterpretation. It is based on the naked aggression of central secular authority against the rights of people within its economic grasp. It reflects the basic essence of fundamentalism: treating people like beasts of burden.
A member of another liberal tradition asserted that the story of Adam and Eve is more primitive than the story that precedes it in Genesis. The metaphorical nature of the story makes it seem less "scientific" than the other story. This also reflects a fundamentalist concept of science. The science of the pre-Christian world used metaphor as a security precaution against despotic rule. The story of Adam and Eve contains a message of hope for humanity in the sense that it gives us clues to the secret of transcendence. Its metaphorical content is more scientific than a liberal theologian can perceive.
Fundamentalist theology may recognize the power of metaphor, but it would never allow its subordinates to get anywhere near that power. Anyone who comes close must be branded as a heretic and isolated from the flock. A fundamentalist child is permitted to learn about metaphor in a secular context, but must also learn to not apply such a "profane" technique to sacred literature. That way, she will retain the nature of a beast of burden.
In a recent federal court decision, Catholic Bishops were denied extralegal power. It is good to see that the long arm of Rome is having some difficulty reaching into the American political system. What do you do in your life to transcend the naked aggression of Rome?
The Catholic Church has a long history of including both liberal and fundamentalist tendencies. The Trinity was crafted in such a way that fundamentalist forces could use it to subjugate the populace while monks could continue to live in relative intellectual freedom. I recently encountered an aspect of this while discussing religious icons with a Catholic monk. She was free to recognize spiritual leaders who acted outside the control of Rome. She was also free to share her thoughts with students of a Catholic high school.
On the fundamentalist side of the Church, we can see an institutional bias against free will. Rome has a fundamentalist prejudice against birth control devices. Unlike the fundamentalism of Intelligent Design, this prejudice has no foundation in strict biblical misinterpretation. It is based on the naked aggression of central secular authority against the rights of people within its economic grasp. It reflects the basic essence of fundamentalism: treating people like beasts of burden.
A member of another liberal tradition asserted that the story of Adam and Eve is more primitive than the story that precedes it in Genesis. The metaphorical nature of the story makes it seem less "scientific" than the other story. This also reflects a fundamentalist concept of science. The science of the pre-Christian world used metaphor as a security precaution against despotic rule. The story of Adam and Eve contains a message of hope for humanity in the sense that it gives us clues to the secret of transcendence. Its metaphorical content is more scientific than a liberal theologian can perceive.
Fundamentalist theology may recognize the power of metaphor, but it would never allow its subordinates to get anywhere near that power. Anyone who comes close must be branded as a heretic and isolated from the flock. A fundamentalist child is permitted to learn about metaphor in a secular context, but must also learn to not apply such a "profane" technique to sacred literature. That way, she will retain the nature of a beast of burden.
In a recent federal court decision, Catholic Bishops were denied extralegal power. It is good to see that the long arm of Rome is having some difficulty reaching into the American political system. What do you do in your life to transcend the naked aggression of Rome?
(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 16:02 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 17:54 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 18:02 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 18:28 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 18:40 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 19:41 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 20:18 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 18:20 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 18:18 (UTC)I watch Spartacus and root for the slaves!
Happy Holy Week !
(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 18:21 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 18:29 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 18:31 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 18:38 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 19:26 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 20:19 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 20:18 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 19:34 (UTC)1) I'm not Catholic.
2) I remain not Catholic.
3) I stay away from naked Catholics. I think.
4) I stay away from aggressive Catholics. Mostly.
5) I've never been to Rome. I'd like to go.
6) I have the occasional sex.
7) I don't use birth control. I don't need it.
8) ???
9) Profit!
Is that the response you wanted?
(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 19:41 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 20:22 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 23:18 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 4/4/12 14:52 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 4/4/12 18:48 (UTC)Lots of times your writing is so lofty -- not a BAD thing, I'm not saying that -- that I (and others, I assume) have no real idea what the salient points are. It's like tossing high-falutin' ideas mixed with random college-level words against the wall and seeing what will stick. The short and cryptic responses you make like above give me the impression you want to be seen as pronouncing from on high in your Ivory Tower to us, your students, and when we show up for office hours wanting help to understand the lecture, the door is locked and the shade is drawn.
Twenty years ago they spent six weeks of college teaching would-be educators how to make up multiple choice tests, because understanding the question and answers is apparently not as easy as a, b, c, d. If too many students got the question wrong, it was most likely because it was a bad question. Redo.
You have not done your best. Come down among the commoners and get a little dirty.
I'll help: "Does the Catholic Church influence anything in your life, and if so, how do you (or would you) like to see that changed?"
Is that the question you were trying for?
(no subject)
Date: 4/4/12 20:25 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 5/4/12 14:42 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 5/4/12 14:39 (UTC)I do not view the members of this community as students. Our learning community meets in private. As for the ivory tower, I view myself as more like the woman beyond the pale who calls to people in the tower to come out and live a little.
(no subject)
Date: 5/4/12 15:38 (UTC)Otherwise, you'll remain the King James Version of TP. :/
(no subject)
Date: 5/4/12 15:41 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 19:52 (UTC)Assuming that you mean all interpretations to be misinterpretation, how about the passage where the Christian God kills a man for wasting sperm?
"Whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD’s sight; so the LORD put him to death also." -Genesis 38: 9-10
Since later refusal to raise a deceased brother's children are treated with humiliation rather than death, it could be interpreted that the punishment was wasting of sperm. I'm having a hard time seeing how a fundamentalist who reads the Bible as historical fact and law could read that and not be terrified of dying for using contraception.
A member of another liberal tradition asserted that the story of Adam and Eve is more primitive than the story that precedes it in Genesis. The metaphorical nature of the story makes it seem less "scientific" than the other story. This also reflects a fundamentalist concept of science.
This is horribly unclear. Which story are you talking about? Lilith? Creation? The Garden of Eden? Humans are created on the sixth day in Bereshit (Genesis), but the second chapter revisits this and the third tells of the story with the serpent.
(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 20:28 (UTC)The story of Adam and Eve takes place in the Garden of Eden. It differs substantially from the story that precedes it. Biblical scholars generally agree that they are distinct stories from different traditions.
(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 20:49 (UTC)There are multiple stories of Adam and Eve, not all of which take place in the Garden of Eden. The Garden of Eden refers to the second chapter, in which it is introduced. Adam and Eve, though created in the first chapter, do not play an active role until the third chapter. Creation is one chapter. Adam and Eve are a revisitation of a part of the first. The Garden of Eden and the Tree of Knowledge story takes place in the third chapter. That's three distinct stories, not two. If you include the Kabbalah tradition, there may be one or two more talking about Adam's other wife/wives.
Most scholars agree that Genesis is cobbled together from Mesopotamian traditions, Babylonian myths, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and original Hebrew mythology.
(no subject)
Date: 3/4/12 23:33 (UTC)Ok I won't then.
(no subject)
Date: 4/4/12 09:43 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 4/4/12 14:59 (UTC)As for your characterization of my observations as delusions, they must necessarily seem to be such to anyone who has yet to escape from darkness.
(no subject)
Date: 4/4/12 20:26 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 5/4/12 14:44 (UTC)