Honestly: the minimum wage does need to go up

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

This post got me thinking.

I am firmly in favor of:

A) A higher minimum wage in the whole US, and my home state of NY
B) Honesty in politics

While the OP I linked to is not exactly dishonest, it's not exactly honest either.
And this is not to put flak upon the poster there, but it's an example of political rhetoric that is used to leverage one side of a conversation, ignoring nuance.

the graphic in the linked to OP:

1) Doesn't seem to take into account state laws that raise min wage over fed laws
2) Doesn't take into account the vast difference in housing throughout a state

My objection is more with 2 than 1. 1 is easy to take care of, but 2 is not easy.

New York City is WAYYYY more expensive than Rochester or Buffalo, NY; or a large number of other places within the state I could name. Yet, this graphic gives us a number, presumably an average. But that average is way skewed. But how else should they do it? Give us on graphic for NYC and another for the rest of NY State? That wouldn't work either, because then you'd need to break it down for other cities and so on. So what do we do?

We must talk about things in the big picture without getting bogged down in details, otherwise we will have to talk for eons before we can understand what needs to be done. So while I agree that the min wage needs to go up, across the US, I have a problem with the info-graphics created to support that argument. They lack nuance, and as such, are deceiving. Even if they don't mean to be, and are honestly doing the best they can to compile and sort the data, the inevitability of misleading data is going to doom us all.

That said.
Happy saint patty's day.
Was I drunk when I wrote this? You decide.

Comments

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

So which one of those arguments didnt exist when the minimum wage was created?

It will kill jobs? Yup, it was around then
It will raise prices? Yup

Note that if nearly half of earners are under 25, that means THE MAJORITY of them ARE NOT under 25. I repeat: the majority of people earning it are over 25

So what is your argument against the min wage?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I've made my argument. That the arguments are old does not invalidate them, it just means that the minimum wage proponents have utterly failed to address them.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

actually, it DOES invalidate them--since none of the doom-and-gloom predictions come true.

your arguments that go back some 70 years have failed. time and again, we see the BULLSHIT for what it is: after we raise the min wage, the poor do better. that is exactly why we need to raise it.

you have never addressed that in a way that the facts and evidence of WHAT HAPPENED WHEN WE INSTITUTED A MINIMUM WAGE. you hand-wave and theorize as if we cannot look at the facts.

please show me evidence that in 2004 when NY raised its minimum wage that your concerns were validated. you can do that, right?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

actually, it DOES invalidate them--since none of the doom-and-gloom predictions come true.

Really? Prices don't go up? Unemployment and payroll hours don't decrease when minimum wages are increased? The wage market isn't further distorted?

please show me evidence that in 2004 when NY raised its minimum wage that your concerns were validated. you can do that, right?

A nice place to pick, given that the economy was booming. I've consistently said that the economy is capable of overcoming bad policy, like it did in the 1990s.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Nope, that doesn't happen.
After NYS raised its min wage, calculations were done.
There was a .003% change in employement in NY counties that bordered CT (who had a lower min wage than the new NY one)

Prices are always going up, even when min wage isn't. You'll need to show something demonstration wise, and not merely give some theoretical argument about what a theoretical business might theoretically do.

I have examined the evidence provided by HISTORY. You just ramble on about theory.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Nope, that doesn't happen.
After NYS raised its min wage, calculations were done.
There was a .003% change in employement in NY counties that bordered CT (who had a lower min wage than the new NY one)

Yes, in the middle of a good economic time.

I have examined the evidence provided by HISTORY. You just ramble on about theory.

For all the accusations of cherry-picking I receive on a daily basis, seeing you point to 2004 as the barometer is really funny here.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

There is always an economic climate happening.
You're dodging the point.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I'm not really dodging the point, my error was engaging in this as if the minimum wage was something to consider to begin with. You're correct in that, if we're acting as if the minimum wage is worthwhile, then there's no winning the game. The math works out, of course, but, depending on economy and area, the situation may not manifest in a significant enough way for proponents to care.

The better argument is why a minimum wage is necessary at all, and why we should be considering having it, never mind raising it.