[identity profile] prog-expat.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics

New York 2011.06.24

Washington 2012.02.08

Both Republican. I salute the Republicans who are starting to come around to recognizing the same-sex marriage debate for what it is: a debate over the right of the state to deny marriage licenses to couples based on the gender make-up of the couple.

Religions would not be required to perform services, just as right now they have the right to deny services to anybody, be they mixed-denomination or even mixed-race couples, and that was the only legally defensible objection they could possibly have for denying this right. The right of marriage does not derive from any religion in the United States, but purely from the legal authority of the states themselves.

A wedding of an opposite-sex couple presided over by a county clerk is every bit as legally valid and binding as one presided over by a clergyman, and to claim that marriage is a sacred institution or that religion has any special claim to it is an indefensible and grotesque argument that violates the separation of church and state that has been so carefully and clearly codified into the Constitution and which has worked to the benefit of the American republic for so long.

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 19:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
It's encouraging to see the US slowly catching up with the rest of the developed world in this respect. Same-sex marriage has been a non-issue for years in the place where I live and in the place where I come from.

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 19:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
Absolutely (http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc&sc2=news&sc3&id=107412)!

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 20:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Icelandic names are so cool. It's like right out of Tolkien (and his favorite language was Old Icelandic).

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 20:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] airiefairie.livejournal.com
Speaking of which, yesterday Iceland picked (http://www.escdaily.com/baku-2012-mundu-eftir-mer-for-iceland/) its song for Eurovision, for the first time in a long time being actually sung in Icelandic (see video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=mepztXfP9_c)).

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 20:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
A friend is teaching me all the naughty words in Danish. I should expand my horizons to Icelandic ;)

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 22:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
I thought it was Finnish? Isn't that what he based Quenya on?

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 22:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Nope. I read and heard it mentioned Old Icelandic was his absolute favorite language. I know his son Christopher Tolkien is the leading authority on one of the old Icelandic Norse sagas (The Saga of King Heidrek the Wise) and published the first modern edition of it in many many years.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 14:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
Wiki says you're correct that this is what he based Quenya on. That doesn't mean it's his favorite language, though.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 20:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
That indeed is true.

In my mid teens I had a bit of an obsession with Tolkien and Quenya... Apparently in the back of my mind there is still some information rusted on :)

"elen sila lumenn omentielvo"

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 04:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
They don't stop there, Bjork is right out of Tolkien.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 15:31 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
The Swedes look at Iceland the same way that the Brits view America: descendents of exiled criminals.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 15:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
Except Swedes have never had anything to do with Iceland. You would've been right if you had said Norwegians. ;)

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 15:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
You forget that Swedes view Norwegians as descendents of exiled criminals.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 18:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
Cool story, and would make for a nice fiction book, but nah.

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 23:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
At least you spelled it with a capital H.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 14:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
That's actually pagan. Heathens are just people who don't acknowledge the God of the Bible, according to Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heathens).

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 15:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Don't believe everything you read in the dictionary. People of the heath are also people of the country side (the origin of the pagan denomination).

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 15:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
It's good to know that language must hew to its original roots, and that meanings never change. I'll be sure to use the word "raped" every time I mean "punched in the face."

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 15:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
It is good to keep in touch with your roots. It is one of the reasons why fundamentalists can read the Bible until the cows come home, but never truly comprehend what is written therein. Corrupting meaning corrupts consciousness.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 15:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
Yes, hewing to millenia-old definitions is certainly important when you're reading a millenia-old document. This is not to say that we should freeze language at the earliest possible point for the sake of linguistic purity, though.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 15:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I do not advocate freezing language, but expanding it to include multiple levels of meaning. The fundamentalists can have their corrupted definitions and the rest of us can have those along with original meaning.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 15:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Your grasp of monotheistic dogma is rather weak. In the paradigm of the One True God, those heathen deities are mere spirits, demons, and idols.

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 19:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paedraggaidin.livejournal.com
Now if we could only do universal healthcare....

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 19:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
THERE IS NO RIGHT TO HEALTH CARE!!

/sorry, been reading too much of the crazy CPAC commentary
//also, Christianity needs to stop being so nice

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 20:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] usekh.livejournal.com
Arise ye workers from your slumber! Arise ye prisoners of want!

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 23:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Next, you'll start to advocate for free air. I believe people should be required to pay for their air. It's the American way.

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 23:59 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Air definitely needs to be privatized. Sure lots of people might not be able to afford it, but I'm certain that the money taken in will trickle down and increase our economy, the sole measure of worth amongst human beings. Everyone benefits!

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 04:31 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
Those freeloaders in Montana and Alaska have been taking far too much air relative to the amount they pay in taxes for quite some time. I'm glad to see that this important government service will finally get some means testing.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 07:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
If they don't photosynthesize, they shouldn't breathe! It's only fair.

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 20:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
The idea of marriage is being some kind of purely religious institution is one of the most commonly accepted Big Lies about how things used to be. Marriage was an entirely secular institution for property rights, poor people just didn't bother. That people in the USA use this kind of argument and attach apocalyptic overtones to what works just fine in the civilized world is an interesting indictment of what passes for political discourse in These United States.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 05:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allhatnocattle.livejournal.com
Marriage is still contract law, perhaps more firmly now then ever before.

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 20:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bikinisquad3000.livejournal.com
It's been teeth-gnashingly frustrating watching people who are either gravely mistaken or lying talk about how religion owns marriage, or invented marriage and/or the word "marriage," and pretend that a religious teaching is a legal and valid basis for a law in the first place. It's frustrating to see that and to reflect that, while anybody can find out in ten seconds how untrue that is, it's these people's jobs to know this stuff, and they don't. Every time another person in authority drops that nonsense it's a little less frustrating, and what a nice feeling that is.
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 20/2/12 06:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com
Marriage, through government, is purely secular.

um, might i please re-use that statement when in a RL conversation? i find it admirably concise.

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 20:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soliloquy76.livejournal.com
If conservatives could root out all these silly wedge issues, just think how much more successful they would be on economic issues.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 04:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] merig00.livejournal.com
they would become a type of libertarians, not conservatives :)

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 04:59 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soliloquy76.livejournal.com
Or the conservative of 40 years ago. There was a time when religious nonsense didn't weigh down the Republican party.

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 14:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] merig00.livejournal.com
Well I wasn't around 40 years ago and if I was I'd be on the other side of the globe :) But I'd assume it all started with the issue of abortion?

(no subject)

Date: 13/2/12 05:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soliloquy76.livejournal.com
For example:
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.

...The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom.... I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?... I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."
-- Barry Goldwater

(no subject)

Date: 12/2/12 23:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I wish more state legislators would take the time to do the kind of research that Grisanti did. That kind of integrity seems to be a rare thing in politics these days.

(no subject)

Date: 20/2/12 06:18 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com
i never did like the fact that government was all up in the mix anyhow. marriage is like a religious activity/partaking...and uh...something about the separation of church and state always comes to mind when on this topic.

Credits & Style Info

Talk Politics.

A place to discuss politics without egomaniacal mods

DAILY QUOTE:
"Someone's selling Greenland now?" (asthfghl)
"Yes get your bids in quick!" (oportet)
"Let me get my Bid Coins and I'll be there in a minute." (asthfghl)

May 2025

M T W T F S S
   12 3 4
56 78 91011
12 13 1415 161718
19202122 232425
26 272829 3031