That old canard.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Men will lose their minds if womenz are involved in combat.

So says Dicky Santorum, who is approaching modern warfare as a wives'-tale with a healthy dose of arm-chair psychology. The most striking thing about the hub-hub around his "argument" is that no one is really noticing that it isn't an argument at all.

No where in this old story about "emotions" and war, is it ever actually established or even argued that "emotions" hinder combat-effectiveness. Much less that male-female "emotions" hinder combat-effectiveness. Of course, anyone who has spent any time with men in combat knows that emotions are an unavoidable and constant condition to human war.

Rather, it is simply assumed and unstated that somehow this bogeyman story about "emotions" will wreck everything and make America lose. Wow, that's some real faith you got there, Dicky Boy. America has the finest military EVAR! But no wommenz! Then we'll suck! We are fragile bunnies! Then again, this sort of dissonance in the conservative mindset (that we are strong but also highly vulnerable) is sort of par-for-the-course. Without the appeal-to-conseqence fallacy of the just-around-the-corner disaster, conservative arguments tend to fall entirely flat upon their flat faces.

And of course, all of this being said, without once mentioning the fact that WAR IS A COMPROMISING SITUATION!

Comments

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Really, this is a fault with men. Obviously we're incapable of being trained to treat other soldiers properly.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I know it's true for me. I see a women and I'm all of a sudden a mindless stallion protecting mah herdz!

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

That's the thing, he's not even saying that women are too emotional to serve in combat, he's saying men will be overcome with seeing a woman in peril and risk everything to save her. Which is of course the woman's fault. Damn us and our helplessness and feminine wiles.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Yep. Boys totally wouldn't break down in combat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rRrZlYN2xw), no way. Never.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Yikes. Now is NOT THE TIME TO PRAY.

STAY THE FUCK DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[paft.livejournal.com]

He's "clarified" by saying it's not the women's emotions he's worried about. He says that if male soldiers see female soldiers in any danger, they'll be overwhelmed by a desire to protect them and it would impair their fighting ability.

In other words, he's offering a broader version of that college breakup line beloved by so many male undergraduates "It's not you, honey. It's ME!"

What makes this especially unconvincing is the high rate of rape complaints from women in the armed forces. Apparently that primal urge to protect doesn't kick in if a male soldier sees a female comrade being sexually assaulted by a fellow male soldier.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

How can there be rape complaints if women have no affect on the Army?

Why are you saying that sex is a variable? That's so sexist.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

What makes this especially unconvincing is the high rate of rape complaints from women in the armed forces. Apparently that primal urge to protect doesn't kick in if a male soldier sees a female comrade being sexually assaulted by a fellow male soldier.

Damn straight.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Well this is coming from the guy who advocates The US engage in terrorism, so I'm not surprised.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

"I want to create every opportunity for women to be able to serve this country, and they do so in an amazing and wonderful way and they're a great addition

Note the word ADDITION in the quote, because this is the only real important word in what Santorum says, and I think it reflects on how he sees women, not just in the army,
but everywhere he deems important.

Again, this is not at all about the army, it's about Santorum, the word "addition" and how he views society.

Makes me realize how many galaxies away we are from a Star Trek universe, not even adding space exploration into the equation.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

That you can hear such bs and still ponder space futures speaks pretty well of you.

[unnamed525.livejournal.com]

Never trust anything that can bleed for a week and not die.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

This is another thing that works for Israel but somehow can't work for the USA.....Israel has UHC and both GLBTQ individuals in its army *and* women in combat.

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

Canada has women in combat roles (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/women-cdnmilitary.html) too. Oh, as well as the other things you mentioned.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

An Israeli prison guard was quoted about Abu Gharib something to the effect of, "sure we imprison arabs too, but we don't stack them up and fuck them".

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

Please let Rick Santorum be the R primary winner.

[op-tech-glitch.livejournal.com]

All the gloating he's been indulging in these past few days, the one fact that keeps coming to mind is...last major election he was in, he LOST. By 18 points. His own home turf fucking hates him and considers him a colossal embarrassment.

Also his first name isn't Dicky, it's Google.

[oportet.livejournal.com]

Scary thought - we may look back on this entire GOP race one day and think, 'Rick Perry was the normal one'.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

No we won't. We might say that about Jon Huntsman, but not Rick Perry.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

'Wow, that's some real faith you got there, Dicky Boy. America has the finest military EVAR! But no wommenz! Then we'll suck! We are fragile bunnies! Then again, this sort of dissonance in the conservative mindset (that we are strong but also highly vulnerable) is sort of par-for-the-course. '

That argument is a fallacy on your part.

Because we're strong does not mean we can't be vulnerable to something.

Their argument aside, your argument sucks.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Well it matches the dissonance of 'we're the greatest and smartest country in the world oh but we're too incompetent to run rudimentary health systems like every other country.'

[madjacktech.livejournal.com]

The 'old boys network' of any political stripe would reject the idea women in combat out of hand,
just b/c change threatens the 'old order', & b/c they couldn't stand the competition,
or anything they viewed as a 'threat' to their power (say, someone who could do the job better,
more efficiently, & might upset any particular 'rice bowl' (aka any particular side perk/benefit/kickback/etc)
that they 'worked so hard' to obtain/build/etc.
Other stripes would look at it from the more 'chivalrous' attitude that 'it's a difficult life, and women shouldn't be subjected to it.'. Yes, it's difficult; but, if a woman can prove she's up to the challenge, then, what of it?
And, to address the whole 'rape' issue, yes, there's always been sexual harassment of women in the military,
even in these more 'enlightened' times when political correctness has tried to stamp it out. (Not that that's a bad thing,
PCness can, on occasion, be positive & effective at the same time.) And, true, there's also the whole macho 'protect the women' thing. I would think that, by extension, any well-trained soldier would look at a woman on his team, in the same foxhole with him, if you will, in the same vehicle, tank, etc., if it comes under attack by the enemy, would work just as hard to save her as any other of his male teammates, for the specific reason that you're trained to have your brothers' backs, to watch out for them ALL. THEY are the ones you have to rely on in the heat of battle.
And, truth to the matter be told, there IS a very valid concern that women soldiers captured by the enemy during wartime
would be raped by the enemy. That HAS happened. Remember the name Jessica Lynch? And, the whole concept could be traced back to the days of settlers crossing the plains, when Indians fought to protect their hunting grounds, & the more animalistic warriors thought nothing of defiling the women they captured in battle; hence the concept of 'saving the last bullets for the women', etc., which could be at the heart of the policy that still stands, as ridiculous & out of date as it is.
Women have already served in combat, even if they haven't been given assignments to ground combat units.
Women are flying high performance aircraft (fighters), serving in ground units that support other ground units in combat,
and, so I've learned, have now even breached the last 'male fortress' of the Navy & been given billets aboard submarines.
(I know this for a fact, b/c one of my co-workers has a sister in law who's presently serving aboard one.)
Women have long since proven the idea of their being kept out of combat roles as a ridiculous & outdated one;
& it's only those most averse to change standing in it's way.

[paft.livejournal.com]

mjt: And, truth to the matter be told, there IS a very valid concern that women soldiers captured by the enemy during wartime
would be raped by the enemy. That HAS happened. Remember the name Jessica Lynch?

Yes.

Jessica Lynch was not raped.

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

facepalm.jpg

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Ok I'm late to the conversation as usual but i'll throw my two cents in anyway.

The whole chicks can't fight/men will lose thier freaking minds angle is bullshit. I know plenty of female marines who are more than capable of kicking my ass to hell and back, nor have I observed anybody having a freakout simply because the DG on their Blackhawk has tits and a vagina. (We actually had three female door-gunners in our squadron for my 2008 deployment)

That said I would say that there is own critical aspect of women that is detrimental to the military's mission.

They get pregnant and pregnant women are non-deployable.

As a male in a front-line unit if I were to be rendered medically non-deployable for 9 months there would be reports written and interviews done. If the CoC felt that I was at fault I would be facing a Disciplinary Review Board, and likely punishment (docking of pay, reduction in rank etc...).

If a woman wants to join a combat unit I say more power to them but they need to be held to the same standards as the men. I just don't want to hear women's rights groups complaining when the COs and Sergeant Majors of those units bust pregnant women for missing their rotations.

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

What if you missed your rotation for a medical reason? Would you face discipline for that?