[identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
In her recently published memoir, Condoleezza Rice describes a harrowing moment when the President's flight into Baghdad airport executed evasive maneuvers to land unscathed for a surprise Thanksgiving visit to the troops. She described recruiting a team of staffers to form a prayer vigil with Bush, saying it is what religious people do in such events. A superstitious person might credit divine agency with their safe landing and may even go so far as to chalk up the outcome to the act of prayer. Had they failed to make supplications to their deity, would they have been shot down by a liberated Iraqi?

A Muslim observer might castigate his own coreligionists for failure to appeal to Allah or for the impiety of Muslims who succumb to the addictions of Western culture. To such an observer, Jesus is powerless to stay the hand of the holy warrior, but Allah turns away from apostate Muslims who worship at the altar of Lady Gaga. History is littered with the bones of the pious and the ashes of the impious.

My biggest beef with story of Bush and his team of superstitious supplicants is the remark that this is what religious people do. Such a comment implies that the group of people who refrain from such activity do not deserve the appellation of "religious." It hearkens back to an era when people were persecuted for failing to perform superstitious supplications. Those who pursued a more difficult path toward the divine were not considered worthy of consideration as religious people. They were a threat to the imperial status quo for their lack of superstitious groveling.

I do not debit Rice for her astute maneuver in pandering to the religious sentiments of her boss. Her detractors might see her tactics as manipulative and flattering. (That is what "religious" people are programmed to do, after all.) Despite her overt support for Bush, there is an undercurrent of derision in her memoir that critics of the administration can appreciate.

What are your thoughts on the role of superstition in global politics?

(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 17:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allhatnocattle.livejournal.com
What are your thoughts on the role of superstition in global politics?

Hmmm.... The President better act now, because we've only got 24hrs left until the aliens attack!!! (http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/40790/alien-attack-update-11-28/)

Re: It's all true!

From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com - Date: 29/11/11 18:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: It's all true!

From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com - Date: 29/11/11 19:04 (UTC) - Expand

It wasn't true :(

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Re: It's all true!

From: [identity profile] geezer-also.livejournal.com - Date: 30/11/11 00:05 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 17:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com
Oh, whatever.

(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 17:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
What are your thoughts on the role of superstition in global politics

Do we really want to talk about Keynesian failures again?

Re: Either that...

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Re: Either that...

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Re: Either that...

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Re: Either that...

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(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 18:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spaz-own-joo.livejournal.com
C'mon, you used to be a multiple trick pony. I'm sure you can remember if you try.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com - Date: 29/11/11 19:34 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 29/11/11 18:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com
I'm not sure I'd count that as global politics, since nobody else was obligated to come and pray with them.

Sounds more like workplace religious pressure, which is, yes, quite tiresome.

Re: I doubt...

From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com - Date: 29/11/11 18:50 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I doubt...

From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com - Date: 29/11/11 18:54 (UTC) - Expand

Re: I doubt...

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(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 18:31 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
My prayers that Justin Timberlake stop acting in movies have gone unanswered (thus far). There is no God.

(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 18:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
God doesn't take action directly and He helps those who help themselves.

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Re: I like that last part.

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Date: 29/11/11 18:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com
stop acting

There's your problem.

Next time try asking that he stop appearing in movies.

(no subject)

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From: [identity profile] spaz-own-joo.livejournal.com - Date: 29/11/11 18:53 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Some might say...

From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com - Date: 29/11/11 18:39 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 18:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jerseycajun.livejournal.com
I've only ever seen him in one film: "The Social Network", and I thought he did a great job there.

Though perhaps your exposure to his work is more... thorough?

(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 18:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
She described recruiting a team of staffers to form a prayer vigil with Bush, saying it is what religious people do in such events.

I think you're reading too much into the explicit lack of the implied "some" (or possibly "certain") in this sentence.

Re: Your generosity...

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(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 18:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com
As long as politicians don't force me to participate, I don't really care who or what they pray to.

Re: Now, that...

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(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 19:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
Well they must not have been very effective evasive maneuvers if you have time to think about starting an impromptu prayer-team.

I flew in helicopters all the time, which is different, but the only things I thought of during evasive maneuvers were, "Oh look the ground is beside me now" and "Oh look the ground is over there now" and "Oh look I can't seem to see the ground right now" and "Oh look, we are careening towards a canyon wall."

Aside from that, I don't think I ever thought of forming a prayer team.

(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 21:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com
Even non-religious people call out to some higher power in times of frustration or fear. Just ask David Silverman about that.

(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 21:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com
True. I don't know how many times I have called out "JESUS H. CHRIST!"

(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 21:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paedraggaidin.livejournal.com
Once again, superstition =/= religion.

(no subject)

Date: 29/11/11 21:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lions-wings.livejournal.com
That seems to depend on where you stand. Just about every religion will describe the others as superstitious, and there are superstitious aspects to all of them (demons! Stigmata! Hidden books you don't get to read! Holy water! Talismans! Shapes in the clouds!)

I don't see the point in ending it, though. (And I'm not going to put myself above criticism; I'm finding myself interested again in spiritualism right now. Cast your rocks if you've got 'em.)

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Date: 30/11/11 00:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dukexmachismo.livejournal.com
I went through a crisis of faith when I asked the Flying Spaghetti Monster to bury Bush II under a pile of ravioli.

Remember in "Conan the Barbarian" when Conan says that his god is Crom, but he doesn't pray to him because he doesn't listen?

Yeah, that's how I felt.

(no subject)

Date: 30/11/11 04:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayjayuu.livejournal.com
You know, in some spiritual circles prayer doesn't bring God around to our way of thinking, it changes us. No different than meditation or introspection (just maybe a little more pressing circumstances at times, lol).

Just sayin'.

Re: Bush and Rice...

From: [identity profile] kayjayuu.livejournal.com - Date: 30/11/11 21:58 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Bush and Rice...

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Re: Bush and Rice...

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Re: Bush and Rice...

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(no subject)

Date: 30/11/11 09:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eracerhead.livejournal.com
I would move to ban superstition in global politics, except that in the end there likely would be no politics at all.

(no subject)

Date: 30/11/11 23:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
What's this post about again?

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