Differences

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

So, I thought about something someone told me. I became reflective.
It was good for me.

I was contemplating: How is OWS different from other left-wing protests?

I came up with three important differences:

1) It's everywhere and ongoing. This isn't like the marches in 03' against Invading Iraq. Those were one day of marching in big cities. It wasn't in Boise, Idaho. It wasn't in Nebraska. OWS is everywhere. That's different. As is how OWS has lasted over time. It's not one day of marching. It's continual and ongoing. There isn't any end-date for it.

2) It's internet-based. The internet has never been so heavily used for a left-wing movement in the US before. Sure, protesters have sent each other email or IM's about protests, but not in this way. The internet is a key factor in OWS, such that, with no internet, OWS wouldn't be what it is.

3) It's not govt sanctioned; it has no leaders. Big labor marches have permits, as do plenty of other left-wing movements. They have a point person who organizes the march, clears it with the city and tells people what's happening. OWS is leaderless; people show up and do what they feel like. There are structural parts of OWS, like the working groups, but it's not lead by anyone who got a permit for the protest.

OWS is everywhere, internet based and a leaderless, non-govt sanctioned protest. These are three differences between OWS and other left-wing protests.

Comments

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you've heard, but it's kinda a big deal....

/jk

what, you a 1%?

/jk, again

ok ok, i'll hush now.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Out of the last 20 posts on this topic (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/tag/occupy%20wall%20street), 5 were yours. That makes 25%.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

Yes please.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

And yet, it's exactly like other left-wing protests. It's directionless, lacks focus, and the only point is to "get the message out", as if that was all that needed to be done. Everyone protesting seems to think that if they could only get people to hear the message then someone [other than themselves] will take action. That is what every left-wing protest has been like and it has never worked yet. Yes, even the civil rights movement. People already know the message, that isn't the problem.

Your 3 differences are differences in scale and style, not substance.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I find the similarities much more telling than the differences.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

a) Style matters.
b) scales matter
c) i never actually said the substance of the protest was different

most protests have the same substance:

"shit's fucked up. fix it." (that's the tea-party substance too)

sometimes they have a unified message on WHAT or HOW to fix it: e.g. OWS joined at the Sotheby's protest. that had a clear message. stop-union busting.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

Having been involved in the '60s civil rights movement, I beg to differ. It worked. It was different in that it had leaders, an agenda, and a clear message.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

So, every success a "left leaning" movement has ever had in instigating change has never been theirs to claim, because that change was about to happen anyway, amirite?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Not true. Case in point David Patterson noted were the Vietnam War protests that started at Columbia University that spread across the United States, those protests within a year were powerful enough to get Eugene McCarthy to run against Lyndon Johnson and forced him out of the election in 1968. Unfortunately that gave us Richard Nixon.

[excludedmiddle.livejournal.com]

"And yet, it's exactly like other left-wing protests. It's directionless, lacks focus, and the only point is to "get the message out""

I've been hearing everywhere how "OWS doesn't know what they're protesting". It isn't true though. Their central aim is to get corporate influence out of the government by removing money from politics. Beyond that there are many other aims/demands, but that is the biggest and most important. Other important aims include debt forgiveness and tax reform.

I don't see any of these things as necessarily liberal either, as it's a response to the negative effects of corporatism. It looks like End the Fed/Ron Paul supporters make up a big minority at OWS protests as well.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

This is what an actual grass roots movement looks like. You mad?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The Civil Rights movement did work, segregation and legalized mob murders and race riots were rendered illegal and cultural taboos instead of the Old South's version of a family holiday to remember the greybeards of the Grey.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

I think this is a fair observation.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

The country wide coincident attacks upon the occupy tents is quite curious.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

Police moved in in Melbourne within a few hours as well...

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

Agree with #1 and #2 but as for #3, why are there specific people deemed "organizers" in media reports if there's no leader? There are specific people who have to be reported to regarding certain issues like media, kitchen staff, their internal security, etc.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Its about working with one another instead of having power over one another. Cooperation. It is not a hierarchical power structure. There can be leadership, people with skills, but overall its about trying to get everyone heard, share experiences, and working together.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Don't miss to mention that OWS is not just in the US, and neither does it originate in the US by the way. Its precursor is actually a movement in Spain, Los Indignados. This trend is present wherever there's been austerity measures, mainly in Europe.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

This trend is present wherever there's been austerity measures, mainly in Europe.

Which makes OWS protests in the US that much more puzzling.

Then again, the protests in favor of implementing austerity measures were more popular here.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

It's different from other left-wing protests in that those protests had coherent ideologies, goals, leadership, and means to achieve those goals. OWS is anti-Wall Street, but I see precious little ideas of substance from it, about the same number of ideas as on the Tea Party, whose ideas are primarily "Booga-Booga scary brown people."

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

The Tea Party is a movement ultimately to make people vote right wing, whatever else they yap about. And it's heavily backed by corporate money.

ETA: so in that regard it does make TP a different kind of beast from the OWS movement.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

You can probably make a fair comparison with the anti-WTO protests, except they've been focussed on the time/space that the meetings were taking place; which is essentially the same as OWS because Wall St doesn't move and meets every day.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

What's this about a protest?

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Hope they are proud.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Elderly-woman-hit-by-spray-at-protest-I-m-tough-2272455.php?tsp=1

Re: Hope they are proud.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

404 would want to know the context of the photo. Maybe the old lady threw rocks at the cops.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Ok, I really do get the idea of the protests near Wall Street....disrupt the "bad" guys. What I'm really having problem with is the protest/camping out/whatever that is affecting (badly, for the most part, I understand the Burger King near the park in NY is doing well) small business owners. I'm sure there are small business owners that are part of the (evil) 1% but I don't know many, and I are one!

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Look, do you believe in Capitalism or not?

Some businesses flourish will others die.

The places that OWS is going to get supplies, those companies are doing quite well.
Those near OWS that they don't shop at--they might lose some business. But how many tourists you think went down to Zuccoti Park while they were in NYC but would have NEVER gone down there if OWS wasn't happening?

The movement is not aimed against small business owners, in fact:

http://www.youtube.com/user/smallbizhires

Also: omelet, meet egg?

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

the question is how the movement will fare in the eyes of the public as time wears on. is the public going to sour on OWS as the more extreme elements become the loudest voices? or will the movement be able to form a coherent platform for 2012?

Re: brucenstein:

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

unless it's chevy chase taking a fall on TV.
that's always hilarious.

amazements

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

1) Doesn't want to see things that she deems as offensive

2) But is still on the internet, a veritable witches brew of all things offensive.

lmao doublethink.