BREAKING: Judge upholds clearout of Zuccotti Park

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Ruling here. Key points upon quick read:

The parties dispute whether the First Amendment applies to the actions of the owner in enacting the rules. For purposes of this application, the Court assumes that the First Amendment applies to the owner of Zuccotti Park, thus obViating petitioners' request for a hearing as to whether Zuccotti Park is traditional public forum, or a limited public forum. Assuming arguendo, that the owner's maintenance of the space must not violate the First Amendment, the owner has the right to adopt reasonable rules that permit & maintain a clean, safe, publicly accessible space consonant w th the responsibility it assumed to provide public access according to law.

...

The movants have not demonstrated that they have a First Amendment right to remain in
Zuccotti Park, along with their tents, structures, generators, and other installations to the exclusion
of the owner's reasonable rights and duties to maintain Zuccotti Park, or to the rights to public access
of others who might wish to use the space safely. Neither have the applicants shown a right to a
temporary restraining order that would restrict the City's enforcement of law so as to promote public
health and safety.

I'll admit it - as a free speech absolutist, I'm very torn about this. Public protest, peaceable assembly, they're absolutely. Keeping a public area clean and disease-free? Also damn important. Still, an interesting situation occurring.

I worry that NYC might be up in flames tonight. I worry about possible precedents this might set for future protests. I'm tired of this topic already, but I'm also worried about the inevitable partisan wank coming from it. I figure this can just be a continuation of mividaloca's post from earlier.

Comments

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

If we didn't go up in flames after Rivera gave up the last run of the 2001 Series, we can probably handle this.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I worry that NYC might be up in flames tonight.

I haven't seen a whole lot of motivation from the protesters, so I think it's safe.

(frozen) (no subject)

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

your brain must be missing.

[stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com]

I'm tired of this topic already

Yeah, me too. I'll post something about it later this week or maybe next.

This only denies an extension of the temporary restraining order that prevented them from being vacated until the park was cleaned. This isn't over by a long shot.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

It's Armageddon.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

This.

Ah, the problems of "public space" intrusions into private property.

[montecristo.livejournal.com]

If the city owns the park it's public space. If the park has a private owner then that owner gets to set the rules for admittance to the property. THAT is why you're torn about this. When ownership is conditional it sets up pseudo-rights which can easily conflict. Clear property rights resolve disputes; obscured property rights make for tragedy of the commons kinds of conflicts.

[jonathankorman.livejournal.com]

Keeping a public area clean and disease-free? Also damn important.

Agreed, but this issue smells redolently of shenanigans. Digby, who coined the phrase “dirty f&^%ing hippies” as a name for this kind of news narrative about liberals and activists, saw this one coming (http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/dehumanizing-protesters.html) weeks ago.

When I was a kid living in the South, I remember my parents looking at a book that was being passed around featuring alleged pictures of civil rights protesters defecating in the streets. The thing had the neighborhood all aquiver, it was like pornographic contraband.
....
(On Bill Maher (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/alan-grayson-gets-standing-ovation-while-bill-maher-panel-mocks-occupy-wall-street-hippies/) last week, GOP spokesperson Nicolle Wallace said her main worry about Occupy Wall Street was where people were going to the bathroom.)

The left gets dinged, sometimes fairly, for wrongly imputing racist motives to the right wing. But it's clear that there is a strain of rightwing thinking that needs to see their rivals as as traitorous, animalistic beasts who screw and defecate in public.

And sure enough, corresponding stories about Occupy then surfaced in the propaganda venues you would expect. Then police in both New York City and Oakland used “unsanitary conditions” as a justification for surprise midnight raids.

Given how sophisticated the OWS camp was, distributing food and medical supplies ... even maintaining a library ... there's good reason for skepticism that this was really a problem. The burden of proof lies on those claiming that the camp was a health hazard. I think we must remain skeptical.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

I bet the people who support such raids would absolute flip their shit if harm to public health was used as a reason to seize and close factories.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Okay, this is a fair point. With that said, however, are you saying the concerns about sanitation and such are not valid? I'm amused that this person thinks the media would be creating this narrative considering how pro-OWS they've been, but that's something else entirely, I guess.

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

You mean, kind of like this? (http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/occupy-seattle-protester-defecates-on-public-sidewalk-video)

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Just watched, that. It was awful, but the main beef about the hippies were they were unclean.

And he who sitith with the unclean shall he himself become unclean
And he who smoketh the doobie with the unclean, shall too become unclean. And he whosoever shacks up with a band of the unclean shall get the crabs and too become unclean!

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

This.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Keeping a public area clean and disease-free? Also damn important

There's an eons long history of declaring the, shall we say, undesirables some type of sub human disease ridden scum who must be eliminated.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

This isn't over.

[chemchick.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Fat lady needs to sing and all that nonsense.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Weeks ago, when the mayor was using the "we gotta clean the park" argument in an attempt to evict OWS, a city councilman made an excellent point, which I can only paraphrase:

"It's weird that Mayor Bloomberg is all of a sudden so worried about cleaning this park up. I can name several parks in my district which could use some cleaning. How about Bloomberg spends his resources on cleaning those parks?"

Hint: the parks he was talking about are in minority areas, not near the living/working space of the 1%.

That's why Bloomberg suddenly cared about cleaning this park while others are in disarray for long stretches of time with no comment from Herr Mayor.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I think that's a pretty low accusation to make about someone, to be frank. You know full well the difference between a park with litter and a park with disease, rats, etc.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Also, I don't think you understand the OWS movement in the slightest, if you think we are gonna go any "up in flames" kind of shit.

there is a small % of violent protesters, but 99% of those at OWS are dedicated to non-violent protest.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

And I'd say the history of left wing protest in this case is what drives my concern.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

If you were a sincere libertarian opposed to the evil government doing anything to remind you it existed, there shouldn't be any torn about, there should be only utterly opposed to.