talkpolitics | Jesse Helms: A Religious Bigot Advocates "Religious Freedom"

sophia-sadek.livejournal.com posting in

I often get strange looks from friends when they hear what my current reading assignment is. The most common retort is, "Why would you want to waste your time reading that?" As we spend time with the works of Alfred Rosenberg, Sarah Palin, or Sayyid Qutb, we get an impression of the thought process involved in the mind of the troglodyte. Our students like to shed light on the clear contradictions that elude the view of the casual observer.

In his memoir, Jesse Helms advocates in favor of religious freedom in China as he rationalizes hes personal opposition to religious freedom in America. This seems like a contradiction, but in the Cyclopean consciousness religious despotism defines religious freedom. Without the freedom to enslave people under the idle idol of the material Creator, you may as well be living in the Soviet Union. The irony of this mindset is lost on the man's admirers.

China has a long history of being closed to foreign religious influence. There was even a period when the literature of Confucius was banned and burned (yes, Rome does not have the only book burning tradition). Franciscans and Jesuits had mixed success establishing Roman bases of operation in China. They were kept under close scrutiny by the king's eyes. The Communist regime is no exception to the sensitivity of Chinese leaders to Roman hegemony under the guise of religion.

As a conservative, we expect Jesse Helms to lack both a historical understanding and a sensitivity to China's position. On the other hand, his efforts on behalf of assisting the Vatican in establishing hegemony in China seem rather strange for someone indoctrinated into the Baptist tradition. Independence from Rome was a hallmark of religious freedom for prior generations. It seems downright bizarre that a Baptist would advocate Roman influence in China given the long struggle that Baptists went through to break from Rome.

On the other hand, Helms supports many of the same despotic laws that the Vatican promotes. He refers to marriage equality in terms that the pope would enjoy. Like Rome, Helms seeks to re-enslave women to a strict regime of forced maternity. He also advocates superstitious supplications for school children. For Jesse Helms, religious freedom does not mean that people are free to practice their own religion, but that his kind are free to force others to practice their religion. He would have China kowtow to Rome because he kowtows to Rome and would have the rest of the world join him in "perfect liberty."

What does religious freedom mean to you?

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From:

policraticus.livejournal.com

I am certain that Jesse Helms no longer operates in the present tense.

Just for kicks, what restriction on religious liberty did Helms try to justify?

From:

sophia-sadek.livejournal.com

... the tense is known as the historic present.

He justified opposition to marriage equality and opposition to reproductive freedom on religious grounds.

From:

policraticus.livejournal.com

Whatever was in his heart, but he chose to worship at Hayes-Barton Baptist, which is integrated.

http://www.hbbc.net/

From:

paedraggaidin.livejournal.com

Religious freedom means to me:

1. Freedom of worship and belief.
2. Freedom from established worship and belief.

Just a note: the Vatican hasn't been able to politically dominate foreign countries in a long time. Hell, it can't even make Ireland keep divorce illegal, or ban abortion in Spain, both of them traditionally Catholic countries where clerics often ran the show (Spain even had a Catholic Fascist regime!). As for now, why wouldn't the Roman Catholic Church try to rescue its followers in Red China from the sway of a thinly-veiled puppet of the (ruthlessly atheist) Communist Party?

From:

sophia-sadek.livejournal.com

... we experienced some Vatican inspired domination recently with the passage of Prop 8.

If Chinese Catholics cannot rescue themselves from a state appointed puppet, then they deserve to live in Rome. (They would probably prefer it anyway. I hear the sparkling holy water tastes better in Rome.)

From:

box-in-the-box.livejournal.com

Actually, having lived in Italy for a while, and having had friends who are native to Ireland, and having blood relatives who come from Costa Rica, the ironic and admittedly anecdotal argument I'd make is that having one religion — in this case, Catholicism — more monolithically in control of the spectrum of religion within certain countries actually means that more people within those countries are LESS likely to pay heed to that religion's edicts. Italy has the lowest population replenishment rate of any country in Europe, and I can tell you for a fact that it's NOT people they're practicing abstinence, which means that the country which includes Vatican City is using more birth control than just about any of their European peers.

The reason why American Christians so often tend toward extremism, to degrees that many of my friends in Britain and Europe can barely believe when I forward them news articles about it, is precisely because we have a much greater diversity of religions, which makes the more conservative Christians among us feel as though they're under siege. By contrast, my relatives in Costa Rica, all of whom are ostensibly Catholic, can't even conceive of getting so worked up about it, even when our discussions turn to hot-button topics like legalized abortion or gay marriage (both of which they support, Papal decrees be damned).

In that sense, the irony is that it's in the best interests of extremist American Christians for their crusade to turn America into "a Christian nation" to FAIL, because if we all became Christian, then Christianity itself would simply become more liberal, as it has done in many ways already. Hell, I'm pretty sure we're only a generation or two away from the American Catholic Church simply splitting off from the Roman Catholic Church, given the number of Catholics I know who engage in premarital sex, use birth control, and support legal abortion and gay marriage, which drives me crazy, because I don't understand how you can call yourself a Catholic if you're disagreeing with the Pope on so many issues, and if the church does split, then American Catholics will effectively be another branch of Protestants.

From:

yes-justice.livejournal.com

I agree with that meaning.

(Thanks for #2)

From:

underlankers.livejournal.com

I don't have any idea what you're talking about, as the most egregious instance of Christian influence in China was not the Vatican missions in the 18th Century, which actually saw the Vatican creating a form of Christianity that conciliated local culture for a time, but the Taiping Rebellion of the 1850s/60s that is the bloodiest war in history after WWII. The Chinese have far more reason to fear more Baptist missionizing might produce another Hong Xiuquan than they do to fear Catholicism.

I'm even less clear on what Jesse Helms and his myopic views of race, sex, and women's rights have to do with abortion in this particular instance when both are coupled with China.

From:

sophia-sadek.livejournal.com

... is that China had furled the Roman sails in Chinese territory which is why earlier missions failed to make inroads.

From:

badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com

In his memoir, Jesse Helms advocates in favor of religious freedom in China as he rationalizes hes personal opposition to religious freedom in America.

Can you detail exactly what you're referring to here?

From:

sophia-sadek.livejournal.com

... in the same paragraph where he espouses civil rights, he advocates against marriage equality. It is as if civil rights are only intended for heterosexuals.

From:

badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com

Okay, but you're making a religious freedom argument here. That's a civil rights argument.

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Jesse Helms: A Religious Bigot Advocates "Religious Freedom"

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