OK I've the day off. Let's discuss abortion conspiracy.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

One can find a conspiracy spin on just about any hot button subject and killin' feetusez is no exception.

First off, there is the The Jew-Hollywood-Anal Sex-Abortion Conspiracy Revealed

Which I do not recommend as anything useful other than the obligatory shocking title crouton that comes with 'conspiracy salad'.

then you have the WHAT IF GUMMITS BANHAMMERED ABORTIONS? spin.

Expert bloggers even warn of a Conspiracy against Canada D&C Demons!

Even the Hosers are hosed!

But the best one is used to hawk a doc. It is a conspiracy to get teens preggers so the abortionists have a ready market of babby 2 murderz.

Rightfully dismissing the above links as a mere shell of an attempt to 'research' the 'issue', lets get to the obligatory 'question' as 'required' by 'room protocol'.

Obligatory question: So how do you really feel about those who want the government all up in your or your loved ones vagina?

ETA: One of the things I like about this joint is 'it makes a man think'. So, reading and responding and re-reading I have a new paradigm

The abortion question is framed wrong. One can be alive, living outside the womb and unless they are a citizen of the country they reside, they have limited, or sometimes no rights. This is not about 'when does life begin' it is about 'when does one become a citizen, with all rights due bestowed'?

My new elaborated theory: it's all about self-cognizance and breath. When does on cease being a citizen? Then (GENERALLY, point slicers be still!) they stop breathing, death. If one falls into a coma, aren't ones rights as a citizen transferred to someone else based on law, and not ones wishes?

One step further - we as citizens have the right to voluntarily house and nurture those unable to fend for themselves. Again, this is voluntary. Through design or accident, she has a resident to house and feed, at great risk to her health and financial well being.

This is what is meant by 'choice'.

Only until a human breathes atmosphere and screams a howdy, do they move from no rights to limited rights as a child, then as a teen. Only until one is an 'adult' as deemed by the government, are all rights due a citizen of that country bestowed.

Rights are a sliding scale that begins and ends with breath.

Comments

9 out of 10 Tea Partiers surveyed say...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

You have reminded me of one of the big differences between Obama and Cain: Obama is the product of miscegenation, where Cain is the product of pure breeding. The same boneheads who see a fetus as fully human and deserving of rights are the children of families who opposed race mixing as "against divine will."

deep

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

Hehehe. Abortion wank.

(Runs away, throwing her hands in the air)

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

Makes me think I need some sort of "wank" icon.

Hmm.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

And thus, behold!

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

perfect analogy

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Can't do that if you're Roman Catholic. :-) That's not an acceptable form of birth control.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

I'm a notoriously bad Catholic. :P

[telemann.livejournal.com]

My favorite kind! :p

[spaz-own-joo.livejournal.com]

Masturbators Onanymous?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Among others, why yes!

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

And it didn't even get 200 comments. Duh.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

I know I am SO disappointed. Maybe i should say something more about the joos?

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Teh Juice is so Tuesday! Violent kittens are the new deal.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

Those goddamn cats are as fresh as a MySpace profile

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

Also, in regards to his other hope, sf_d was busy yesterday discussing both of our communities. Although they reserved the majority of their judgment for the OP thankfully.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

dammit. Those people!

Joos trumps abortion

at least that paradigm is established...

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Well I surely am surprised that it took them so long.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

if you were a part of the wank..links?

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

meh, it was pretty mild. TP didn't get bashed at all. And TPN only a little.

http://sf-drama.livejournal.com/3299897.html

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

You'll get used to it. :-D

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

I'm looking forward to the day when TPN gets it's own featured post there, not just sharing with TP like the last two times. That's when I'll know my community has really arrived. Right now we're like the bratty kid sister tagging along. Although...we may be entering our teenage years *slams door while yelling you just don't understand me*

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

The maturing has been amazingly fast, you should be proud!

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

Not really :o(

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

You expect a "live begins at birth" statement to spur heinous outrage at sf_d? Don't flatter yourself, as they have far more important things to be offended by, like furry roleplayers.

Anyway, my view as an awesome male is that babby = parasite until it's born. In the literal sense. After it's born, it's still a parasite, but less literal.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

You know, I'm not even deleting this and re-writing live as life, because fuck LJ for not letting me edit. God damn. God damn America.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

Blame those fuckers over in Mother Russia. Goddamn Russian mob runs LJ now and won't even let you edit unless you pay $20 in "protection money" for a paid account.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

It's a bribe to Putin to not DDoS/nuke all of us.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

THEY HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

I find that if you don't feed them fresh wank, they get restless

This isn't a post as much as word vomit

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Re: This isn't a post as much as word vomit

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

Wang-stealing monkeys: the scourge of wang-conscious dudes everywhere. I hear now that feminist mothers are bringing their little boys to the monkey exhibits in the zoo just so they can be "emasculated" in an even more literal sense.

Rush was right, feminazis are evil! :(

Re: This isn't a post as much as word vomit

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

I'm a trend follower, not a trend setter *shrugs* what can I say?

[spaz-own-joo.livejournal.com]

All of this debate has centered around the question "When does personhood OFFICIALLY BEGIN" and that's the inevitable result of our radcally egalitarian ethic of personhood; if all people are equal, then that means personhood must be a strictly binary proposition; things are either people or not people, and there can't be any intermediate state for the purposes of ethics.

But when we talk about what makes something a 'person' and deserving of rights, we're generally talking about things like intelligence, awareness, sense of self; this is the chief rationale we find in sci-fi which struggles with the moral rights of space aliens and artificial intelligences, and in people who argue for animal rights IRL. Arguments for these things almost always come as appeals to the internal 'mental life', the capacity for joy, suffering or merely cognition in the persons in question.

Now here's the thing: we are well-entrenched in this concept of egalitarian personhood as an all-or-nothing concept, but biology doesn't work this way at all. The vaguely-defined set of cognitive abilities which we call "self" are certainly not present at the time of conception, and arguably they aren't even present at birth; if we're going to identify personhood with any of those cognitive qualities, then the only coherent response to this question is that personhood is accumulated gradually from conception through the gestation period, and goes on accumulating through infancy.

You know what? I actually think of a three-year-old as more of a person than a newborn. I'd honestly be more horrified by the mother killing the three-year-old than the newborn. This isn't consistent with the egalitarian concept of human value, but I guess I feel like that concept is ultimately irreconcilable with the biological reality of what humans are.

I'm not arguing that we drop the egalitarian conception, simply that we acknowledge it for what it is: a pragmatic compromise which produces very good moral conclusions in all situations where 'personhood' isn't ambiguous, but which doesn't do a great job of describing anyone's "transition" from nonperson to person.

Hope this made sense to anyone.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

It does make sense, as you could also point to the various "coming-of-age" rituals which mark a person's progression to adulthood. Although you did miss that historically, only adults were legal persons. It's a fairly recent idea to try and extend the personhood thing to the right to life, when before it was merely being a human being that mattered. And it's objectively true that biologically a fetus is a distinct human being from the mother.

not life, but citizenry?

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

I err on the side of atmosphere inhalation as the point in the cellular development of a human that would logically bestow citizenry and the rights thereto. If you draw breath, you are a citizen until you stop drawing breath, like everyone else.

The question should not be "when does life begin?". Rather "when does citizenship begin?" Unless one is a citizen of a country, they have no rights, per se.

Under L sez:

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Given that even Mississippi won't turn that idea into practice, the people pushing it are really, really stupid.