(no subject)

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Everyone should read and understand this:
5 Logical Fallacies That Make You Wrong More Than You Think

I think they pretty much apply to everyone here, although some are more guilty than others. Do you think it would be helpful to have a list of common fallacies numbered on the comm user info so that we could just refer to that when someone commits one? "I'm sorry, that's fallacy #31, try again." It might save us from some of the overly emotional, drama-baiting, 50-deep comment threads.


ObConspiracy: Have you noticed that the initials for talk_politics are the same as the Tea Party? Is this comm just a front? Which one is the t_p tag marking and why are we kept in the dark about it?

Comments

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

Well, we do have a couple of links put on the comm sidebar, one is of a list of logical fallacies (which I think should be updated because it doesn't seem to work; I'm open to suggestions for a new source), and the other a good write-up on Derailing A Conversation For Dummies).

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

http://derailingfordummies.com/ Here's the Derailing "tips" list.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ This link is apparently no longer available.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

"'Reasoning doesn't have this function of helping us to get better beliefs and make better decisions,' said Hugo Mercier, who is a co-author of the journal article, with Dan Sperber. 'It was a purely social phenomenon. It evolved to help us convince others and to be careful when others try to convince us.' Truth and accuracy were beside the point."

I'm going to guess this was written by a psuedo-science academic who's never invented anything, started a business, or other activities where reasoning helps a great deal in finding better beliefs and making better decisions. Of course he's used resoning in his own life to do those things, but he has a theory. Perhaps he's projecting. We didn't make it to the top of the food chain simply because we could convince other people we were right.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

The author posits that there exists an selection pressure causing these fallacies. I didn't notice him demonstrate one other than the assertion:

Back when evolution was still sculpting your ancestor's brains, admitting you were wrong to the person you were debating got you bred out of existence.

How? Do women avoid breeding with men who admit they are wrong?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Context matters when someone makes an unclear statement. In this case, you should have been able to determine that he was talking about "reasoning [with others]" and not about your examples of reasoning with yourself about things.

[surferelf.livejournal.com]

I don't think we reasoned ourselves to the top of the food chain, though.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Nice read. 90 million per terrorist victim. Jebus.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Ugh, too many references to evolutionary biology, this doesn't work when relationship columnists use it, and I'm certainly not going to accept those premises when reworked for this.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

I think you mean evo psych, because evo bio is pretty well-established and all...

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Hands off, t_p was first! The TP stole our abbreviation. I call rip-off! The Koch bros will be hearing from my lawyers soon.

[nairiporter.livejournal.com]

I am sure they are trembling right now!

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

Toilet paper was first.

Some cheese with your whine

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

So this is about you getting tired of your ass being handed to you in discussions here, isn't it?

Instead of blaming the other person for being "Wrong™", why don't you dose your positions with human empathy, morality and reality, instead of this cold hearted rugged He-Man Individualism™ you ply as your 'political position'?

Just where did this desire to be overwhelmingly right, and not only dismissing opposition, but seeking ways to cut them in the process, as...punishment (?) for disagreeing with your point, originate?
Just who took your toys away when you were young? Bully? Adult Authority figure? Fascinating.

Re: Some cheese with your whine

[xforge.livejournal.com]

^^^ That.

Re: Some cheese with your whine

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

I'm shocked, simply shocked at the *crickets* from the OP in response to this excellent comment.

Re: Some cheese with your whine

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

So this is about you getting tired of your ass being handed to you in discussions here, isn't it?

Uh, no, it's about giving people some entertainment in order to slip the serious part by their conscious mind.

Instead of blaming the other person for being "Wrong™"

I don't usually blame other people for being wrong. They often can't help it.

why don't you dose your positions with human empathy, morality and reality, instead of this cold hearted rugged He-Man Individualism™ you ply as your 'political position'?

Because that would be illogical. When I'm dealing with the real world, that's when empathy and morality matter. When making logical arguments, they have no place.

Just where did this desire to be overwhelmingly right, and not only dismissing opposition, but seeking ways to cut them in the process, as...punishment (?) for disagreeing with your point, originate?

I don't know what you're talking about. Everyone desires to be right, didn't you read the article? As for punishment, I only cut at those people who are not putting effort into making logical arguments.

[dv8nation.livejournal.com]

I think the number of people here who read Cracked is more interesting.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

The title is a bit ironic.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

What's the point? If you point out a fallacy they'll just deny it, even if you show them the link, or say "oh that's not what I meant" forever keeping you on that wild goose chase of what they really meant when they were actually just full of shit.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

It's the fallacy of argument by fallacy.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

The point would merely be to have an easy way out of arguing with an illogical person.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

If what this says is true than the real goal is not to be correct but to triumph. Therefore, STFU LIAR JERK GUY!!!1!!2

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

Ironic post is ironic.

[ghoststrider.livejournal.com]

I actually disagree with #1. I turned a Christian into an atheist by pointing out that "God" never actually wrote the Bible, it was instead written by human scribes hundreds of years after Jesus went on his merry romp throughout the Middle East, and was probably heavily politicized as well. So yes, it occasionally happens, just very rarely.

As for the Tea Party, it's actually run by Dick Cheney. Dick Armey is just Cheney's clone.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

Re: your first part... So there's still some hope for humanity...

Sly Under L succintly states sudden statements secretly surmised:

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I always thought T_P was the same initials for toilet paper, not the tea party.

Re: Sly Under L succintly states sudden statements secretly surmised:

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Just because you're unaware of the conspiracy doesn't mean it isn't real.