[identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
A police presence at a protest is understandable. Of course they want to keep the peace and make sure we follow the laws.

But we've all seen video of police going too far. And, WRT OWS it has been something of a mantra that the "white-shirts" are the brutalizers. Tony Bologna of the first macing videos was a white shirt. Others have expressed similar sentiments. However, what I want to point out, is that we don't need to use such blanket statements here.



In this video we see a big burly blue-shirt being too physical with protesters and being restrained by one of the white shirts. Now, this big burly blue-shirt may have aspirations to become a white-shirt, but that's not the point here. The point is that some police have gotten the message and understand that you can't just toss people around like that burly blue-shirt was doing.

I thought: hey! that's great. Cops telling other cops not to rough us up! Amazing!

And then, as the day progressed, two videos of cops PUNCHING people--in the face--without provocation showed up. Alas, my high hopes of the police coming around didn't last long. (videos such as: this and this and of course, that)

But then, again, I had to remind myself: the police are the 99%. They have their own 1% to deal with, as we have our 1% to deal with. Any mass of enough people will have SOME dickbags in it. The point, however, is to outnumber those dickbags and stop them from fucking us all over. But, much as the economic 99% are struggling to fight against the top 1%, the power-hungry 1% of the police who want to abuse the crowd--they might have some authority over the 99% of cops, and even those good officers who understand force is not to be employed except when necessary (I am willing to recognize that sometimes it is--sometimes) may have difficulty overpowering their own 1%.

I leave you all with a question:

At what point does it become too much? How many videos of police CLEARLY abusing their power does it take? When does it stop being some sort of anomaly and when does it become a worrisome pattern? At what point does police brutality of peaceful protesters become an issue that matters to YOU?


[**Police ARE the 99%. But that doesn't mean the 99% has yet gathered all it's own in unity. Sometimes the 1% can turn us against ourselves. That is bad for us. But we must never forget that police are the 99%--and we shouldn't turn against ourselves. We need unity, not division. Though it is hard to keep loving those who physically abuse others--yet we must.]

(no subject)

Date: 15/10/11 17:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com
At what point does it become too much?

Ummm.... I don't know. I don't think the point of this protest (if there even is one at this point) is to demonize the police. There is no sense trying to paint these protests as such.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com - Date: 15/10/11 19:51 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 15/10/11 17:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
Authority without accountability is tyranny.

(no subject)

Date: 15/10/11 17:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com
"Sometimes the 1% can turn us against ourselves."

And sometimes, a small group's name isn't all that accurate.

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Oh snap??

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(frozen) Re: small group??

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100 - 1 = 99

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(no subject)

Date: 15/10/11 21:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
To be sure, true popular movements are simultaneously extremely radical and very unwieldy. Neither of which applies to either OWS or the Tea Party, both of which are mass movements.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com - Date: 16/10/11 03:55 (UTC) - Expand

Good point.

Date: 15/10/11 22:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
The 1% already has the 99% divide against itself. These protesters cannot possibly represent the whole.

(no subject)

Date: 15/10/11 18:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
So let me get this straight-individual NYPD beat cops engage in brutality so all police are bad?

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It is just...

Date: 15/10/11 22:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
... like saying that because a few Wikipedia entries are flawed, no entries can be valid.

(no subject)

Date: 15/10/11 18:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allhatnocattle.livejournal.com
Heading down to the Calgary protest in a few minutes. I'll report back what I see.

(no subject)

Date: 15/10/11 18:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
Most of the "police brutality" videos are gotcha vids of police striking back after being provoked.

(no subject)

Date: 15/10/11 19:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] essentialsaltes.livejournal.com
Image (http://bestpicturefun.blogspot.com/2011/07/wwwkeralitesnet-picture-of-day-cops-in.html)

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Re: We need more of that

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Date: 16/10/11 00:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] surferelf.livejournal.com
I think this proves that it is impossible to intimidate anyone while seated upon a scooter. There's no way that douche in the checkered shirt would have jumped in front of a line of cops on motorcycles.

(no subject)

Date: 16/10/11 01:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com
The video I saw today of a cop punching a female protester is the first incident I've seen without provocation from Occupy Wall Street. And it was disgusting, uncalled for, and I hope the NYPD conducts an investigation into the matter.

Any mass of enough people will have SOME dickbags in it. -- And obviously, Occupy Wall Street has their fair share, like the L.A. teacher who says Jews need to be run out of the U.S., or the protesters from Occupy Boston who spit on a uniformed female Coast Guard member. Occupy Wall Street needs to hold their own dickbags accountable for their ludicrous actions, too.

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From: [identity profile] dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com - Date: 16/10/11 21:56 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com - Date: 17/10/11 23:12 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 16/10/11 04:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com
Your first two videos appear to be of the same event.

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Date: 16/10/11 07:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
At what point does it become too much?
So far, so good, at least in the United States. The Syrian government's reaction to protesters is that country is an example of "too much".

How many videos of police CLEARLY abusing their power does it take?
At least one. Brief clips showing someone at the corner of the screen getting shoved or punched, with little or no context, do not conclusively prove all that much.

When does it stop being some sort of anomaly and when does it become a worrisome pattern?
At the point where protests are suppressed with excessive force, where going to a protest involves the credible threat of being seriously hurt in unprovoked attacks by the police.

At what point does police brutality of peaceful protesters become an issue that matters to YOU?
Any time that police attack peaceful protesters is a cause for concern and should be investigated. My definition of peaceful protesters, however, doesn't include people who scuffle with the police.

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Date: 16/10/11 07:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
I don't know what's going on here, but the problem with police is very deep and institutional. Quite frankly, they don't have the kind of training that they need to do their jobs. The job of a police officer is more mentally tasking than it is physically. They see and deal with shit that wholly dehumanize them. It is the limits of the human psyche. Mental training, mental review, accountability, etc. There should be more in place when training an officer.

In one sense, I don't blame police for the brutality, because they have been conditioned to respond in certain ways. They're still responsible, but I can see how that sort of thing comes about from all the fucked up shit they go through, and police training and maintenance needs to take into account this kind of stuff.

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Date: 16/10/11 12:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peamasii.livejournal.com
here it was pretty much a hippie fest, LOL

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Date: 17/10/11 06:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
I think someone is doing some serious miscounting. Or just making up numbers.

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