(no subject)

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/09/occupy-wall-street/100159/

Can we stop saying it's just white kids now? There are black women, asian men, white children and mixed-race families down there. Some have good jobs, some have no jobs, some have shity jobs. That's America for you.

some folks who've been down there: Cornell West. David Patterson. Micheal Moore.

love or hate those people, it's not only white middle class male people there. some folks down there do meet that description. but many other descriptions can be used too.

so please, stop with calling them a bunch of entitled white middle class kids. cause that's just not true.
And whatcha gonna start calling it when unions join up with them? Still just a bunch of kids? I don't think IBEW or SEIU or CWA would agree with you on that one. And again, you can hate unions, but acknowledge this isn't strictly white 20-somethings who go to Bonaroo (as jon stewart joked). This is a movement. You may not like it. But I don't like the TEA party, yet it still exists, don't it?

So here's you chance: anybody who was confused as to who shows up, that Atlantic article should show you some diversity there. And the big-names who showed up should tell you this isn't a fringe issue.

Unless you think Cornell West is a fringe fellow. If so, I'd love to hear what you have against Dr.West
IMO, he's one of the most admirable public figures we have right now.

Comments

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Dude, quit making pronouncements because oslo pissed you off. Can "we" stop doing what now?

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

I wish it was just Oslo. Would you like links to other people saying that too, or can you google?

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

West is a fringe nutjob.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Please elaborate.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

I thought entitledwhitekids had become one word, along with slipperyslope and ohmygod. I'm almost sure there are others... I seem to hear them all the time.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Still looks like a bunch of hipsters.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Cornell West and David Patterson look like hipsters?

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

And the Tea Party looks like a bunch of cross-burning, southern, white landowners. This is fun.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

And the big-names who showed up should tell you this isn't a fringe issue.

Michael Moore is the only "big name" you've listed. He's pretty friggin' fringe.

I had never heard of Cornell West before. According to Wikipedia, he's a "non-Marxist socialist" supports PETA, and chairs the Democratic Socialists of America. Very fringe viewpoints.

I suppose David Paterson, the ex-governor, isn't fringe. Well, wasn't - considering where he's associating himself now, maybe we were wrong about him. Regardless, still fairly corrupt (although clean by New York standards) and he did call for noncitizen voting rights while in elected office, which is a bit off...

I wouldn't call that group one I'd want to be associated with, personally.

EVEN SO: Numerous politicos and celebs have signed onto objectivism, Scientology, other bizarre beliefs and such - being a "big name" doesn't make something not fringe.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHAHA.

You don't know who Cornell West is. You're completely out of touch with the left. You don't even know your enemy.

Go read some Cornell West and come back with something substantial about him. Not what you took from Wiki. I'm serious. His writings are really good and accessible. You and I may disagree with his theology, but it's not like he's a Jerry Falwell type.

Also: call Cornell West whatever you want, but it's plainly clear he is not a hipster or part of the white, entitled, male, middle class.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

"[West] chairs the Democratic Socialists of America. Very fringe viewpoints."

also, unless his wiki page changed since you checked it:

"prominent member of the Democratic Socialists of America"

"he is a long-time member of the Democratic Socialists of America, for which he now serves as Honorary Chair"

he does not chair it, save for in an honorary sense.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

If you've seen the Matrix movies, he's in the last two.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

You've never heard of Cornell West? WTF?

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

I take the view that a lot (but not most!) of these folks are the Left's equivalent of the ubiquitously-mocked misspelled-sign yahoos seen at Tea Party rallies. You get them everywhere. I remember them at some of the mid-2000s anti-Bush anti-war protests.

Or, basically, this (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/troglodyte.htm) and this (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/weenie.htm).

And, really, it saddens me. Freedom of assembly is (or should be) one of our most important rights, but these few crazy protesters have reduced what once inspired great societal introspection to a lowbrow national joke. The original March on Washington inspired tens of millions and helped usher in the era of great civil rights progress, and the original Boston Tea Party helped solidify resistance against an increasingly distant and hostile British government; nowadays, there is a March on Washington for every little issue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protest_marches_on_Washington,_D.C.#2000.E2.80.932009), and the latter-day "Tea Partiers" are popularly known as anti-government fanatics harboring the worst kind of racist rhetoric.

(I realize that only a small minority of either liberals or conservatives fit the "crazy protester" image, so don't say I am impugning all anti-war or Tea Party protesters; what I am saying is, our great assemblies have become defined by the crazy few, instead of being great in spite of them.)

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Something to consider: if the person at the current protest is 20, 25 or 30, they were 13, 18 or 23 in '04.

I recall the anti-war marches in '03, leading up to Iraq. I think many of the people at OWS were too young to be involved in politics then. Or they were just beginning to get involved. So the older folks were probably against the war in '03, as the vast majority of the people there now are STILL against the war, but the younger folks are getting involved now because they're old enough and awake enough and see a venue to express that frustration with a broken system.

And yes, we shouldn't paint the majority by the loudest and craziest minority. Fred Phelps ain't most christians.

But if you think OWS has turned the 1st amendment into a national joke, I would ask you to reconsider. They are using it in a new fashion, modeled after the arab spring. Not to mention peaceful sit-ins decades ago. Cornell West said that MLK would look upon this protest from beyond the grave and smile.

I feel that's quite an endorsement.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

really, it saddens me.

That there are too many "weenies" really saddens you, or did you omit a winkie?

The press really loves to amplify the freak show.

Mother Jones got some pretty nasty press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Harris_Jones) too, hauling those kids around.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Why are we pretending this is an issue

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

unclear what the issue is. could you clarify?

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

I don't think this ultra-liberal knee-jerk reactionary attitude is helping your cause, broheem.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Using Michael Moore as an example of anything beyond idiot damn fool hackery is laughable. Point taken on the other two.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

bought? don't you mean received as a govt hand-out? only people down there are welfare queens anyway!

/snark.

rock on.

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

White middle class male people have just as much right to express their political opinions as anyone else.

If you're going to reduce him to a token...

[oslo.livejournal.com]

The least you could do is spell his goddamn name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel_West) right.

Can we stop saying it's just white kids now? There are black women, asian men, white children and mixed-race families down there. Some have good jobs, some have no jobs, some have shity jobs. That's America for you.

I don't know why white kids think that posting pictures of people participating in the protests who aren't white or kids refutes the claim that the roots of the grievances voiced there are very White, very classist, very much a product of the system the protesters want to usurp. Yes, congratulations, you've rifled through a bunch of images and found a lot of POCs and people out of their twenties (as well as, well, a lot of white young people). This doesn't change the fact that the rhetoric and methods are deeply rooted in a very White, Middle-Class, and privileged worldview.

And whatcha gonna start calling it when unions join up with them? Still just a bunch of kids? I don't think IBEW or SEIU or CWA would agree with you on that one.

You know - Jesus! - you know why the IBEW and the SEIU and the CWA wanna make common cause with the Wall Street Occupiers? It's because the bulk of the Occupiers from a generation (or two or three) that historically hasn't given enough of a shit about unionization. You were the ones that didn't want to give up union dues or risk your jobs to organize your workplaces.

If you want to understand why I find the Occupiers so irritating, here's a good example. You want to change the world? You want to turn the system upside down? Well, you've had a way to do it for the past thirty years, and it's called unionization. But you didn't go for it. You didn't think it was sufficiently important. And you probably still don't - you're treating the unions like some other contingent that lends legitimacy to your own rage. You could have been organizing for years to support politicians who stood up for unions and workers' rights, but you didn't. You had it just good enough. It's only now that the banks have dropped the ball that you're looking for solutions - but unions are curiously absent from your manifestos. Why is that? What do you know about the world, after all?

So here's you chance: anybody who was confused as to who shows up, that Atlantic article should show you some diversity there. And the big-names who showed up should tell you this isn't a fringe issue.

What article? Your link leads to a bunch of images. That doesn't give me any perspective.

As for the "big names" - well, I don't know about David Patterson, but both Cornel[] West and Michael Moore have been known for engaging in publicity stunts. I say that even as one who loves Dr. West - sometimes he says some pretty crazy things for attention. I think he sees this as an opportunity (as much as Michael Moore does).

Re: If you're going to reduce him to a token...

[oslo.livejournal.com]

As for the "big names" - well, I don't know about David Patterson,

And, to add to this - I hadn't realized you meant David Paterson as in, the former governor of New York. As in, David, accused-of-using-his-position-to-tamper-with-witness-testimony, Paterson. I guess you're stoked he's a celebrity, of sorts, and maybe you think he was unjustly accused. But, uh...