Occupy Wall Street anger may be misplaced.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Dear Occupy Wall Street: Are You Sure You’re in the Right Place?

Deep breath. There’s no scapegoat here. We’re all in this together, and we’re all (somewhat) at fault. So rather than planning an occupation, let’s focus on solutions:

I know protesting makes some people feel good, like they're "doing something" about whatever problem, but what does this protest really accomplish? Yes, we know people are angry, and hey, we've shown how police are still violent and repressive. Great. Now, can we take a step forward and actually work on solving the problems and not just get stuck at complaining about them? (And getting the facts straight might help a little too.)

At the end of the above article are 3 suggestions. I think they are reasonable ones. Do you agree or disagree?

Comments

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

What are those suggestions? Tell me in your words.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Encourage banks to lend by removing pro-saving Fed policies, uptick rule to counter short selling, and (for some reason) give a bunch of money to franchises.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Encourage banks to lend by changing Fed policies, uptick rule to counter short selling, and give loans to franchises.

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

I don't think the anger is misplaced. Even if it was, expressing it is part of the process. Eventually this movement will either fizzle out, or congeal into something politically useful. Give it time.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Protesting does and has often changed things. Many social achievements have been... eh, achieved, first through protests, then resistence, and then actively taking a political stance and holding it with great effort.

Including the Tea Party Movement, by the way. It's a grassroots movement, right? ;)

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Protesting does and has often changed things.

Not in the modern west, no. Not in this generation.

Including the Tea Party Movement, by the way. It's a grassroots movement, right? ;)

The Tea Party movement accomplished nothing via protest, but rather via the ballot box.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

I think part of the problem is that the movement isn't really one with goals. It is, as the article says, a lot of very angry people yelling, with no clear idea of who they should be yelling at. What's the end-game? When does the occupation end? If we get word tomorrow that unemployment is magically down to 5%, is that it? Or do we need to have them out there while Congress debates, say, Obama's jobs bill?

For the suggestions, I dunno. Franchises? It seems an odd thing to single out as a growth industry. Most franchises are restaurants like McDonald's and BK, are they not? Is that really the industry we want to push forward? I'm OK with the uptick rule. I'm not sure what the author means about paying banks to hold our cash. Did the required reserve ratio go up after the crisis, or did the Fed just start paying a higher rate on reserve deposits?

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

The goals are gradually coming together. For example:

https://occupywallst.org/forum/detailed-list-of-demands-overview-of-tactics-for-d/

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

RE #1 Andrew Cuomo: Yes, OK, we can blame the government for loosening regulations. I'm on board with that.

RE #2 The Fed: Yes, they left the proven Keynesian track and went for low rates in a boom period. I'm on board with that.

RE #3 The Market: For misplaced trust that the banks weren't offering up insecure crap as rolled gold excellence. Don't trust the banks? I'm on board with that.

And #4 is another call for more regulation.

Interesting to see you agree with this.

I don't see why the article is asking the question; the banks lobbied for the lower regulation, have been complicit in the neo-liberal economic madness that has come out of the Chicago school and are the ones abusing the public's trust. I wasn't sure Wall St. was the right place before, but this article has convinced me!

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

"I wasn't sure Wall St. was the right place before, but this article has convinced me!"

Well, that's awesome. i'd expect you'd like the gathering at Liberty Plaza.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

So, you blame the banks and then think that Wall St.'s the right place. Interesting.

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

1.The Federal Reserve should stay out of it

Yeah right.

2. Let’s bring back the uptick rule, and make it harder to short the market. What does this do? It makes stocks go up so companies can raise more money to hire people.

What? How many Republicans are going to have to die before they allow regulation of this type?

3. None of the stimulus from Obama or the Fed has helped the franchise business. There are about one million franchises in the U.S. employing over 10 million people. How about we give those franchises a tax break so they can hire more people. Or set up a lending program to lend directly to them so they can start more franchises and hire more people. This would definitely help unemployment.

Wrong. Lower taxes do not lead to more employment, they lead to more profit. Employee pay is not profit. If lower taxes worked, we'd have full employment now.

[malakh-abaddon.livejournal.com]

I have said that a couple of times here, that lower taxes do not improve the economics of this nation. It only leads to more debt, more anxiety, with less getting done because of political bullshyt and posturing.

Trickle-down economics cannot work because of the human capacity for greed. Lower taxes for job creators, will rarely create new jobs. The bailouts did not work as advertised and I will not debate that they did with anyone. In order for a bailout to work, you have to start at the bottom, and go from there. I have always said, if dear old Uncle Sam would have bailed out the people, much debt would have been paid, many things would have been bought, and possible many more jobs would have been created. Economically aware people, or those with a shred of common sense, would have paid off homes, and vehicles, bailing out the banks and car makers. Those with less debt might have bought new cars, new homes, or the niceties of life.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

"we’re all (somewhat) at fault"


that's just not true. i didn't do a god-damned thing to cause this, but i'm suffering from it. i don't have the $$ to be an investor, in anything other than myself, I didn't take out an irresponsible loan (i am, currently paying off my college loan, on time, each month) and I didn't drop the restrictions that permitted the clusterfuck we see today.

i'm 25. i think many 20-somethings see the situation and feel as i feel; by the time we were entering the job market, everything was getting fucked over, big-time. we exit college with tens of thousands of dollars of loans to pay off, but a collapsing job market.

the facts are plain: the top 1% have ENORMOUS amounts of wealth; they are using their wealth to facilitate their gathering MORE wealth.

we, the 99%, do not like that

we will remain angry until conditions improve

[oslo.livejournal.com]

i'm 25. i think many 20-somethings see the situation and feel as i feel; by the time we were entering the job market, everything was getting fucked over, big-time. we exit college with tens of thousands of dollars of loans to pay off, but a collapsing job market.

Yeah, but you're not all just entitled white kids with student loans outstanding and poor job prospects, right! I bet some of you are driven by the deep structural inequalities perpetuated by the system even before the financial crisis struck!

the facts are plain: the top 1% have ENORMOUS amounts of wealth; they are using their wealth to facilitate their gathering MORE wealth.

Yeah, that sure does make me mad! We should occupy something!

we, the 99%, do not like that... we will remain angry until conditions improve

To be fair, it seems a fair chunk of that 99% are perfectly happy with that arrangement. They're deranged, of course, but you shouldn't purport to speak for them.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

'the facts are plain: the top 1% have ENORMOUS amounts of wealth; they are using their wealth to facilitate their gathering MORE wealth.'

Well do you oppose a trickle up stimulus? Because all this stimulus is just trickling right to them.

Your simplistic thoughts on wealth and power aren't going to hurt the rich.

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

If this really were a 99% versus 1% disagreement, it would have been settled a long time ago. Many, perhaps most of the 99% are content, indifferent or oblivious, and a lot of the others, though angry, aren't willing or capable of taking action that would make conditions improve.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

The discussion about whether these protests "do" anything is really beside the point. In this country, protests primarily are an expression of sentiment, rather than a (serious) attempt to change anything. To say the protests are useless because they don't solve the problem is blaming them for something they aren't really supposed to do anyway.

They are young.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

If they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

I agree that the anger is misplaced. I disagree with those 3 suggestions.

One of the biggest problems is how we view investment in this country. People's livelihoods are being traded around as assets and people are hedging bets on your future. There has been zero oversight as garbage mortgages were put into financial packages, stamped AAA by agencies like S&P, and sold while with a straight face telling them this was the most secure asset ever! This is a criminal level of negligence and everyone involved is in on the deal.

I wouldn't prosecute anyone- it's too late for that. But one thing we can do is vast reform of our financial institutions. For example, retirement. What is the only way to secure retirement that is government endorsed? 401k. That is the only government-endorsed method of providing retirement for an individual. The retirement of a citizen hinges on the financial markets. They dictate the livelihood of too many Americans.

One way to solve that is to guarantee minimum retirement, such that people do not have to, at gunpoint, invest in the stock market lest they have nothing to retire upon. To accomplish guaranteed retirement just do what any other country does to guarantee retirement; Have a fund by the government to provide retirement money. It would be a lot like social security, but it needs a lot more money than what social security provides. Other countries have this down to a science, it's extremely possible and would take away what I consider way too many much reliance of this country on the financial institutions, creating the 'too big to fail' mentality that allows banks to take huge risks with our futures and not worry about failing because taxpayers will always bail them out.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

As a movement it is the first sign that the progressives may finally be understanding how to organize properly. Where its goals are concerned they're vague and meaningless and have as much chance of sincere affect as those of the Tea Party do.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

They're not learning how to organize properly. I've seen the pictures. Nobody is going to take them seriously when all you see is people partially wearing clothes, or men in stockings and wigs, and other ridiculous stuff that makes them just look like bored hippies having a smorgasbord.

[existentme.livejournal.com]

I'm amused the Pentagon is not mentioned at all.

Why mention...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... the subsidiary when the parent company is concerned?

I agree...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

Protesting Wall Street is a hopeless endeavor. It is like trying to get grandma to use a modern washing machine instead of the model with the mounted wringer. What we need is to abandon the vestiges of the ancient world altogether. The protesters live in the past.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Add a reinstatement and strict enforcement of the Glass-Steaggall laws, and yes, those three things would help . . . though what do franchises have to do with anything?

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Somebody needs to sucker people into Mary Kay.