The richest church in the world

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

The Pope Palpatine is on a visit to Germany these days. He's being met by thousands of cheering Catholics, while elsewhere protesters are expressing their disapproval because of the endemic pedophilia in the Church (and other things). This has resurrected an old argument that occasionally resurfaces in the publics pace in Germany. Is it a myth that the Church is wealthy? And how wealthy is it exactly? Well, in Germany it isn't poor, to say the least. In fact it's funded with the taxpayers' money. The Lutheran Church there is literally God-anointed.

In Germany the Church receives an annual government subsidy of 19 billion euro. The money goes for upkeep, salaries of the clergy and the teachers at the theologian schools, for the official representatives of the Church at the various state institutions, including the police and the military administration which are taking care for the peace and harmony of the clergy. The German taxpayer also pays for the church kindergartens, the theologian faculties at the universities and many other activities under the jurisdiction of the Church. Meanwhile, the Church participates with just 1% in the budget of the Catholic hospitals. And of course pays no taxes. After all, it's a receiver of tax money, not a payer.

You've already sensed where I'm going with this. The famous separation of Church and State. Does all of this mean that what looks from the outside like a church activity, on the inside is more like a state business? Read: it's getting financed by the taxpayers. Germany has this "unique" model in this respect - it has a Church Tax! It works like this: the tax declaration that every German citizen fills annually includes a place where you have to state if you adhere to a certain religion. If you do, then the tax authorities will impose a Church Tax on you. So why would anyone register as a member of any church, you'd ask? Because it's important for people, that's why.

The Federal Statistics Service of Germany reported that in 2010 they had collected 9.2 billion euro from the Church Tax. This is not a small amount. Having in mind that this is the net income of the Church, it's no surprise that it's probably the world's wealthiest religious institution (after the Vatican?)

The financial relations between church and state are quite different in the neighboring countries like Poland and France. The church there is mostly supported through donations, charity and voluntary gifts. But not in Germany.

It's like a state within the state - two in one. The separation of church and state may be one of the major achievements of the modern democracies. But in Germany you'd be hard pressed to find any article in the Constitution, or any other law that clearly formulates the distribution of prerogatives between church and state. The Constitution contains only one text which was by the way directly copy-pasted from the Weimar Republic. It's Article 140 which only says that there's "no official state church" in Germany. And that's all. And though this formulation might be interpreted as the thing that's supposed to separate the church and state, still a clearer description of where the relations between them could reach, is non-existent. At least not one that clearly states their separation. And this is not going to change any time soon.

Comments

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I've never understood the whole concept of a Church tax. At that point the Church *is* an arm of the state, not really a religious body.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

The churches are established in most European countries.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

Sorry, couldn't help it...

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

1. Don't the Protestant churches receive support as well?

2. Case in point for why separation of church and state is simply a must in a modern democracy.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

1. Subsidies - sometimes. Taxes - only in Germany and several other countries. The Church gets government support in various forms, including subsidies. In Switzerland some of the cantons fund the most dominant church in their region through taxation, too. And every canton has arranged its relations between church and state in its own distinct way. In some places the Church Tax is voluntary, in others you either pay the tax or you can't be a member of that church.

If the Church makes money, it should pay taxes. And a more comprehensive law about charity is necessary. The current one allows plenty of loopholes that are used for tax evasion.

[nairiporter.livejournal.com]

I recently read an article about the abuse on many German children at the orphanages after World War 2. Beatings, humiliation, sexual violence, such was the life of many orphans who grew up in those institutions after the war. And many of these orphanages belonged to the Lutheran church. And today it is seeking forgiveness.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

They've asked for forgiveness, yes. Officially. It happened after the Roundtable about the abused children appealed for financial compensations. Earlier this year the Bundestag ratified the relevant decision. And a special fund was created where 120 million euro of aid is supposed to come.

But the Church has refused to pay direct compensations to the victims of its abuse. It only facilitated the registration of the fund (which is under the government's jurisdiction) and nothing more. Besides, it pays compensations only to those who are able to prove that they haven't overcome the trauma from their stay at the orphanages. Which is a very arbitrary thing. What's that supposed to mean, "prove me that you're still suffering of the trauma"? A major WTF moment.

An American Invention...

[russj.livejournal.com]

Most European states do not have any separation of Church & State.
They usually have an official State Church.

Re: An American Invention...

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Indeed, God bless Europe, origin and savior of true Godly society with all its Caeasaropapist overtones. John Hagee must be so proud when he sees it.

Re: An American Invention...

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

How do you define "most"?



FYI, Europe is that blob on the left side of Eurasia and just above Africa. I'm seeing three or maybe five countries with an official state religion there. Care to reassess your statement?

Re: An American Invention...

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

> do not have any separation of Church & State.

Haha! Good one :-)

Re: An American Invention...

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

Mine doesn't.

Re: An American Invention...

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

An American invention based on the principles of the Englishman John Locke, who in turn was inspired by the German Martin Luther.

Re: An American Invention...

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

And yet they're so much better at separating church and state than the US.

Re: An American Invention...

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

I cannot think of a European country where the question "Do you believe in God?" is even considered being included in a presidential primary debate. And where none of the candidates would even think of saying "No". Or a country where entire major political parties are hijacked by one church denomination or another (even Poland, home of John Paul II).

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

You mean you can have a religion without supporting it financially? Cool!

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

I can, can't you?

Feel free to donate.

Unintended Consequences?

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

There's a dark side, it seems, to the US model:

What's the difference between the Catholic Church in the U.S. and the Church in Germany? Follow the money. In the U.S., we don't pay taxes to support the Church, so it begs for big money from the wealthy and well-to-do, i.e., right-wing Notre Dame alumni who snap even at the sainted Ted Hesburgh. Soon it's a mortal sin to vote for Kerry. But in Germany, the Church is at least not in financial hock to Republican right-to-lifers, because it gets money directly from the state, i.e., a left-wing welfare state. So the Church in Germany can be relatively more left-wing and even has an Archbishop Marx -- Reinhard Marx, archbishop of Munich and Freising, which is the pope's old post -- and this Marx, like the other Marx, has even written his own Das Kapital denouncing CEO pay raises, outsourcing, and the milder but still growing gap between rich and poor. Isn't it a help that Archbishop Marx doesn't have to beg alums of Notre Dame for money? But I don't want to give a Marxist explanation of Archbishop Marx.

I'll just point out that he's free to call them as he sees them, just as the early Christians used to do.

(Thomas Geoghegan, Were You Born on the Wrong Continent? How the European Model Can Help You Get a Life, The New Press, 2010, p. 288.)

The author has a point. When churches goes begging for money, they best not say anything about that whole rich man and a camel analogy, biblical though it might be, lest the collection plate goes wanting.

After a few years of this unnatural selection, the richest churches are suddenly quiet on the topic of giving to the poor . . . and Jesus' actual condemnation of the rich. Funding the church with something other than groveling might not be a bad idea.

Re: Unintended Consequences?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Jesus didn't condemn the rich.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

I truly don't understand how, in my country at least, churches are tolerated any more. They're the only organisations allowed to discriminate on sex, sexual identity, marital status, race or religion and they also don't pay taxes. My only bright thought is that it is these positions that are driving more and more people away from them.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Yeah they're all the same. They all discriminate based on sex, sexual identity, marital status, race or religion.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

Good thing you are without prejudices yourself.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

So what you're saying is you wonder why an organization based on ideological coercion gets political support?

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

Some consider tolerating different beliefs to be a very civilized thing to do, and freedom of association to be a fundamental right. And consider that if you were to draw up a list of organizations that the state should no longer tolerate (which I guess means official repression) because of the forms of discrimination that you mention, it would have to include:
* The Girl Guides, Women's Shelters, Feminist organizations (sex)
* Gay clubs, charities, support groups and organizations (sexual identity)
* family and parental support and counseling services organizations (marital/family status status), not to mention singles clubs, swingers clubs, etc
* many immigrant and community support groups, ethnic dance troupes (race)
* many community and charitable groups, like the Salvation Army, the Knights of Columbus (religion), and really, to be fair, you'd have to extend the ban to atheist organizations and probably political groups as well
Even under the heavy handed repression of the Soviet Union, religion could not be completely eradicated. Maybe that's why churches are still tolerated.

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

I wonder just how 'religious' do the folk in Germany tend to be? I mean culturally do they say grace before supper, teach bedtime prayers? Do many attend university to study theology? Perhaps if the answers to the preceding were to yield high numbers, then maybe this would explain why their current system remains as is. ?i dunno?

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

In a very general observation, no, they're not as religious as Americans if that's what you're asking.