Pride, Personal Exploration, and Class Warfare.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

This post started as a reply to malasadas' post on The State of White People in America incorperating elemenents of a reply I made to amazements earlier untitled post, that grew out of hand.

For the most part I find myself agreeing with malasadas' observations, but there is a critical aspect that I think many on the Right tend to gloss-over and most on th Left outright ignore. I feel that this is also the cause of the percieved discrimination against whites.

This aspect is White Pride.

Now for many people, both black and white, the image conjured by those two words is this...



My skin is pale (bordering on reflective) and my ancestery reads like a travelogue of Eastern and Contental Europe with occasional raids north into England and Scandinavia. I can claim no particular ethnic or cultural classification other than being of White/European decent.

To express any pride in this fact is to risk being labeled as one of those in the image above. But you know what? Though it is politically incorrect to admit it, I am proud.

In my admitedly biased opinion Western European Civilization is the best civilization ever. My ancestors, when they weren't too busy killing each other, conquered the known world and produced minds like Euclid, Machiavelli, Bach, Shakespere, Dostoyevsky, and Einstien. Yes there were a lot of right bastards in the mix as well, but do the Mongolians go around apologizing for Genghis Khan?

The accepted narrative of US politics is that of a class war between the oppressive white majority represented by wall street and thier political champions the GOP vs. the freedom seeking minorities, academics, and thier political champions the Democrats.

Imperialism is bad, Multi-culturalism is good, etc...

There is much to this narrative that is true and this is why it persists, but as malasadas said, it's a gross simplication and dismissive of the complicated interplays of societal trends across many different groups and individuals.

Personally, I dislike the term "Class War" as I feel that one's "Class" is most often an arbitrary designation usually assigned by someone in no position to do so. For instance, I am white and thus part of the "ruling class", I'm also a broke college student in a predominantly hispanic nieghborhood, if I'm supposed to be in charge clearly I'm doing something wrong.

This difficulty is also illustrated in my reply to amazements

It would be easy to argue that Obama's energy policies are clearly an attack on Rural Americans. Increased fuel prices lead to fewer available jobs and higher food prices. Trust me, when your job involves driving a truck or tractor $4.00 a gal adds up quick. And the push for more public transportation does little to benefit those outside major population centers. The Message Leftists have embraced seems to be "who give's a fuck about those ignorant slope-heads in the flyover states?"

Leftists like to portray the tea part as some many headed deamon that rose from the darkest depths of ignorance and racism but is it any surprise that they're angry?


Yes there is a Class War but the sides are constantly in flux and too numerous to count. The Rich left fights the poor right, The rich right exploits on the poor left, the Rural fight the Urban, and the media acts as mercenaries.

We need a new narrative.

Comments

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

We need a new narrative.

Yeah, well people are working on it but nobody wants to listen.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

Hold on, I've been preparing another amazing post that will blow your mind! But I'm gonna keep it for tomorrow because too much awesomeness for today would make some heads asplode! :)

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

Euclid, Machiavelli, Bach, Shakespere, Dostoyevsky, and Einstien

So, wait, you are descended from a combination of Russian, Greek, Italian, British and German-Jewish ancestors?

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Not just Greek. Ancient Greek.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

they're all africans if you go back far enough.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

On my dad's side I'm predominantly Russian and Ukrainian with a touch of Autrian Jew.

Mom's family is a mess with british/german from Grandad and French/Italian from Grandma. (Holiday dinners were epic)

I must admit that Euclid was a bit of a stretch

Race pride, like all collectivisms is empty

[montecristo.livejournal.com]

Identity inheres in the individual. It is the individual who has worth. Race is mostly an abstraction. The fact that Euclid, Machiavelli, Bach, Shakespere, Dostoyevsky, and Einstien happened to share a genetics which leaves them with a skin tone more similar to yours than to perhaps Wesley Snipes, is purely coincidental and incidental to who you are.

Re: Race pride, like all collectivisms is empty

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Say what you will but humans are a tribal animal and you will be judged by others based on your tribe.

Very well put.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

Wow, you do say sane things sometimes. Bravo.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

Also:

I am white and thus part of the "ruling class"

This is a strawman. The assertion that privilege attaches to Caucasianality is something other than an assertion that all white people are members of the "ruling class."

Yes there were a lot of right bastards in the mix as well, but do the Mongolians go around apologizing for Genghis Khan?

I'm not sure the ethnic pride of Mongolians is the standard we use to determine what our attitudes ought rightly be towards sundry historical legacies. I mean, it may be that most Turkish and Greek people don't have many misgivings about what they did to each other over the centuries. Does that mean I should not rue what Americans did to the native peoples of North America?

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Not to mention, just ask an Armenian in southern California about Turkey because every year the local papers get up in arms over the lack of recognition of the Genocide.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

The assertion that privilege attaches to Caucasianality is something other than an assertion that all white people are members of the "ruling class."

If this is not the case than please give me a rational or quantifiable definition for privilege. I could easily rephrase the statement in question to "if i'm supposed to be in charge have some sort of social advantage than clearly I'm doing something wrong."

As for the 2nd part of your comment, If you are asking me "would you pursue similar policies if given the opportunity?" then the answer would be no. If you're asking me to feel guilty about shit that happened before I was born the answer would be the same.

[raichu100.livejournal.com]

I would say I'm proud of my ethnicity. The only bits of it I know about for sure are my great-grandparents who were of German Jewish descent. I think everyone should be proud...unfortunately, the term "white pride" and the term "black pride" have different connotations. As it is, "white pride" implies a sense of dominance, while "black pride" simply implies pride in heritage (something I think all people ought to have). Too bad, if you ask me...

[malakh-abaddon.livejournal.com]

George Carlin said it best.

"I saw a slogan on a guys car that said "Proud to be an American" and I thought "What the fuck does that mean?"

I'm fully Irish, and when I was a kid I would go to the St Patrick's Day parade and they sold a button that said "Proud to be Irish", but I knew that on Columbus day they sold the same button only it said "Proud to be Italian", then came Black Pride, and Puerto Rican Pride. And I could never understand national or ethnic pride, because to me Pride should be reserved for something you achieve on your own.

Being Irish isn't a skill, it's a fucking genetic accident.
You wouldn't be proud to be 5'11". You wouldn't be proud to have a pre-disposition for colon cancer."

But I will agree that we are in a class war, and the poor/lower middle class are in the cross-hairs. The sad fact is, only the poor and middle class are willing/wanting the problem to be solved.

[sizequeen.livejournal.com]

I agree with Carlin. I'm black. To me being "proud" of Barack Obama or some other accomplished black person, is as empty as celebrating because "your team" won the Superbowl. The team won; you didn't accomplish shit.

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

I have nothing against white pride in principle, it's just too often emphasized by some really hateful motherfuckers therefore it tends to invoke a negative connotation. It's also been used as a justification for some truly awful atrocities. Godwin be damned, Europe was nearly destroyed by it, not to mention slavery and Jim Crow. So yeah, people aren't going to see it in the same light as black pride or brown pride or whatever.

It's not fair and it should change, but it won't until society is more equitable and when the people who emphasize white pride aren't complete douchebags.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I'm English and German, dammit. Whiteness is an idea of people who didn't consider Slavs or Jews humans. One of the real reasons I hate Nazism so much is that it means celebrating being Volksdeutsch von Brandenberg-Preussen is problematic for certain obvious reasons.

I see no need to accept the ideology of a bunch of skinny-ass meth head inbred hillbillies from the sticks that helps them feel better about what miserable failures they are any more than I must genuflect and self-mortificate because my ancestors were responsible for the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre and served in the CS Army. I can help change things for the better today. I need not whine about having ancestors in the Army of Northern Virginia or go bald raising the fascist salute to a drug-addict corporal who defined epic failure in order to give life as a white guy meaning.

TL;DR: This is a false dichotomy.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

"TL;DR"

Quite Ironic coming from you.

That said, thank you for illustrating a point.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

As I said above, they usually start as replies.

Then I realize that I've written a "comment" that's longer than the OP and should just go the whole 9.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

It's a shame that the term "white pride" originated with and is inextricably linked with a bunch of people who also coined terms like RaHoWa (Racial Holy War)...it is also tied to the electric can opener (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_holy_war) but that is neither here nor there.

I'd agree that there is an unfortunate discourse that tries to "balance" our dialog by over-emphasizing European wrong doing at the expense of the remarkable acheivements and contributions to humanity from the West.

But, in an ironic twist, I don't see that discourse as removing white "pride" when I think about what healthy pride probably means. I can take a pleasant day's walk from my apartment and within 10 blocks have some truly exquisite Italian food at least five different restaurants. I can walk across the park to the Metropolitan Museum and view remarkable acheivements in fine arts. A similar walk downtown gets me to Lincoln Center and a little further to Carnegie Hall (I didn't even have to practice!) where works of music, opera and dance by Western artists predominate the schedule. A quick walk to Central Park and the Delacourt Theater gets me to the annual Shakespeare in the Park festival. I can walk into any High School in any borough of the city and find Charles Dickens on the curriculum...

So while I understand from where the narrative of "White Europeans are evil" may seem to come (although I'd argue that is an overstatement of the issue's framing), I also see ample evidence all around me that the accomplishments and cultures and Europe are both present and honored.

[dark-weezing.livejournal.com]

To expand on your point, didn't the New York Times exclude several major composers from a high-end classical music list, specifically because of their race and region (white guys from Austria)? If so, well, okay, but it's "Political Correctness Gone Mad," to borrow from TV Tropes.

[dark-weezing.livejournal.com]

You raise a fascinating point in that if it weren't for the past negativity associated with the White Pride movement, it would be regarded rather differently, along with the other ethnic pride movements. Although, when the Black Panther movement came along, I'm sure quite a few noted the irony of the Panthers becoming what they were fighting against. These days, both they and the Klan are irrelevant, so it all works out. (Or, well, they'll have to keep up with the times, I suppose.)

And I do agree that in any sort of pride, it should be what one actually did. To imply one race is better or worse than the other, it's a zero-sum game in its way. (If I'm using the term wrong, feel free to correct me.)

One commenter noted on the previous entry about White liberal guilt, as I'm trying to understand it, myself. (I say that, for I'm not on the Left.) Speaking as a dreaded White male, I used to have a form of White guilt when younger, yet the things or acts I should feel guilty over are either done or dying. Moreover, my great-grandparents came from Europe in the early 1900's, so what am I supposed to feel? It's an ongoing process and I'm still forming my conclusions, yet I can only hate myself for so long, least of all because of my race.

Speaking of which, I go by what Shelby Steele rightfully noted that every White just has constantly to prove he or she isn't racist beforehand. Even though, he or she personally had nothing to do with that past history or was born well past it. While I may not exactly be prideful of my race, I don't feel the need to be guilty, either, specifically because of my skin color. And yet, that's what I hear in the modern culture, day in and out. I have more than enough self-loathing about myself, as I can't exactly loathe myself for things that I am not personallly responsible for. (I do that plenty.)

As for the rest, humans fail, and that's why we're human. Of course, I do acknowledge that horrible aspect of our country's past, it is however slowly improving. Some are faster than others, and some are slower than others. Learning from the past is essential, but all we can do is move forward, right? I'd love to go back and undo some of that, but then, I can't, so all I can do is try to improve in my own microcosm.

Anyway, Adam Carolla had a good fine take about racism in general, in his latest book. I highly recommend it, actually.

Everything else, I'll address in malasadas' recent and superb entry. I just want to see how well this comment goes, before I go further. Besides, I don't think we've addressed the modern form of White guilt, and I'm curious to what the OP thinks about that. (Would make for a fun sequel, wouldn't it?)

To the class warfare issue, which is an easier topic for me, I'll get to that in a separate comment. (My brainpower being spent on the above.)

As a coda, I'll leave with the Omaha Public Schools' latest purchase:

http://www. omaha .com/article/20110710/NEWS01/707109937

The book that OPS bought, “The Cultural Proficiency Journey: Moving Beyond Ethical Barriers Toward Profound School Change,” includes a worksheet for teachers to score themselves on a continuum of cultural sensitivity. The continuum ranges from “cultural destructiveness,” as evidenced by genocide and ethnocide, to “cultural proficiency,” depicted as the highest level of awareness.

Only those educators who acknowledge the existence of white privilege in America, that “white” is a culture in America and that race “is a definer for social and economic status” can reach proficiency, the authors contend. Those who score poorly on the worksheet are asked in the book what they will do “to align yourself with the values expressed.”

Make of it what you will, but I'll go with Darkwing Duck would say, "Yep, yep, yep."

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

The Panthers weren't fighting segregation, they were fighting discrimination. It's fairly well documented that many Panther leaders were fighting for "separate but equal".

You needn't feel white guilt, but living in the first world, a world built on the back of slavery, genocide and colonialism, and sustained by more modern versions of the same, you need to at least be aware that your prosperity is built on the pain of others; whether that makes you feel guilty is up to you. As I mention below, issues of class are often conflated as issues of race in the USA.

Of course, I do acknowledge that horrible aspect of our country's past,

This is really key. This is why people think the left are trying to make white people feel guilty. It's not about making people feel guilty, it's about finally being truthful about the past. The issue is that when many people are confronted with the truth about the past it not only makes them feel guilty, but it attacks beliefs that are core to their sense of self, especially if they are heavily invested in jingoistic patriotism. Saying that the US has committed atrocities in the past is akin to telling some people you fucked their mum and they react accordingly. It's not about guilt, it's about truth and acknowledgement that the past has an influence on the present.


(Also, I'm being UScentric her because of the nature of the audience, but this is an issue that I will rip my own culture to shreds on; Australia has a past that is South Africa bad).

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

We need a new narrative.

Not really, you've laid it out there pretty well. The problem is the US has tried so hard to pretend there is no class that it is taboo to talk about it. So rather than there being productive discussion around class based issues it's ignored, or transferred on to talking about race (many of the racial issues in the US are actually class issues).

Louis CK

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Re: Louis CK

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Assholes born in the 90s are old enough to drink.

[mintogrubb.livejournal.com]

Yes there is a Class War but the sides are constantly in flux and too numerous to count. The Rich left fights the poor right, The rich right exploits on the poor left, the Rural fight the Urban, and the media acts as mercenaries.

We need a new narrative.

Agreed. Also very true in the UK as well as the USA.
can I plea for a DQ on this as it deserves to be recorded for posterity.

What is clearly needed is a Political Party that will allow people to own property and craete wealth responsibly, that will allow working people to rise through the social scale, in affect making poor people richer instead of just taxing the wealthy to pay for poor people to stay unemployed in order to gather votes from those on Welfare.

Such a party should also legislate to save national natural resources from over exploitation. It should not allow the loggers to chop down the last tree or for trawlers to catch the last codfish.

We do have such parties in Europe . It is high time that them Amerikuns got one of their own up and running. And, yes, I would be more than happy to point them towards a working model that they can crib from.

[surferelf.livejournal.com]

It would be easy to argue that Obama's energy policies are clearly an attack on Rural Americans.
First you would have to convince me that he has a policy.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

He might as well have said "I'm coming for you, you fuckers"