Plagiarism, talk_politics, and you

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Nothing like a little drama to spice the place up, eh?

Without rehashing a lot of the craziness of the last day or so, to keep people up to date, it was brought to the mod team's attention yesterday that there were some issues of plagiarism in the community. I'm not going to name those names here, but the people involved know who they are. This is not the first time it's come up, for sure, but the first time it was truly credible and was dealt with, from my otherwise uninvolved position, appropriately.

With that said, plagiarism is a problem. Intellectual dishonesty aside, we also run into a LiveJournal terms of service issue:

LiveJournal falls under the DMCA Safe Harbor Agreement and cannot control, or be held responsible or liable, for any of the Content that appears on the Service. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, LiveJournal imposes certain guidelines to promote the safety and security of all of its users. By using the Service, you hereby agree to comply with the following guidelines for posting Content on the Service. Failure to comply with the guidelines set forth below may result in flagging or restricting access to any and all Content posted to the Service, deletion of said Content, and/or suspension of your Account without further notice:

Offensive and Inappropriate Content: Should any Content that you have posted be reported to LiveJournal as being offensive or inappropriate, LiveJournal has the right to flag, restrict access, or delete said Content at any time without prior notice. In addition, LiveJournal might call upon you to retract, modify, or protect (by means of privacy settings) the Content in question within a reasonable amount of time, as determined by the LiveJournal staff. Should you fail to meet such a request, LiveJournal may flag, restrict access, delete said Content, or terminate your Account at its sole discretion without assuming control, responsibility, or liability for the Content posted on the Service under the terms of the DMCA Safe Harbor Agreement. Should Content be reported to LiveJournal as containing full nudity, violence, obscenity, gang-related Content, hate-based Content based on racial, ethnic, gender, transgender, disability, or sexual orientation, harassment of other users, endangerment to minors, incitation to violence or criminal activity, violation of another person’s intellectual property rights, or Content that is otherwise offensive or inappropriate under the TOS, LiveJournal reserves the right to flag, restrict access, and/or delete said Content and/or suspend your Account at any time without notice;

tl;dr: plagiarism can be serious business.

So, with this in mind, we are adding to our stable of rules somewhat:

11. Plagiarism cannot be tolerated in the community, as it violates Section XIII of the Terms of Service and could put the community or its users at risk. Please cite what you quote from, as any sort of infringement of this nature will have to be deleted on sight.

This rule does not exist because we want it to, but because, after significant discussion amongst the mod team, we don't feel we have a choice. While no one from LiveJournal or from any other place has approached us regarding copyright infringement, DMCA violations, theft, or otherwise, we'd rather not have to deal with it at all. We don't want the community to be suspended, we don't want any of our posters being suspended, and we don't want to put those commenting on plagiarized entries at risk. I assume everyone here feels the same way.

Now: if you run into issues, if you notice some crazy copypasta, the mods will deal with it. Remember: we have a special dedicated post that all of us track and monitor regularly, so if there's an issue, take it there - don't rely on PMs to mods you prefer, as they may not be available, and none of us are going to ignore certain posts based on personalities or other issues - we all keep each other in check, and we're all looking to make sure talk_politics remains the best place on LJ to discuss political issues of all kinds.

Finally, in the event you saw a post today that was quickly removed, please note that personal offensive references in postings are frowned upon here. We're glad to have discussions about our behavior, about community issues, and about anything else that comes along, but the way to do it is not to come out with guns blazing in a blindside. I'm sure we all agree that such posts aren't productive, and if there are issues regarding what was discussed in that post, this is absolutely the proper place to air those issues.

I got a little long-winded, but this issue was serious enough to warrant some significant discussion. Our door is always open, and thanks for continuing to be awesome people.

Comments

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your ongoing work to keep this place rolling, moderators!

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

/thread.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Yes, the issue is important, and being myself one of the guys who have indeed violated this rule on several occasions before, I'm the last one who's to sermonize on this. Admittedly, we have to work more on that, and make sure that we start with raising our own standard first and foremost, because it sets an example. That said, I think this is the moment where I commit a ceremonial harakiri for the pleasure of whoever feels like watching it - and I'm sure there are such people in *cough* outside of this community.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

I want to watch the harakiri.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

This, rather inglorious, Crusade did have a cleansing effect, after all. Not only did it display the true intentions of those who wielded it, but in the meantime it also served us as a reminder and a sobering moment. So, thanks to the noble knighthood for achieving that (although probably for the wrong reasons).

On a side note, isn't it awesome that no one here can read Bulgarian and cannot find where I've stolen all my posts from? >:-))))

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

isn't it awesome that no one here can read Bulgarian and cannot find where I've stolen all my posts from?

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

I say mea culpa. I've used paragraphs and parts of articles on a number of occasions in the last months without citing links to the original article, which essentially falls into the category that we're debating here. Mea culpa, and all that. I call lazy brain. (beats brain). The sooner i return to making author-only content, the better for me.

While there is a very valid point in the argument which was being made here, i'm sure we cannot tolerate the way it was made - instead of choosing to be a constructive factor, the one who did it, opted for the collision path and thus automatically rendered themselves a disruptive factor which clearly had very different purposes from the valiant ones we might've expected.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

And that in turn is the trademark strategy of a very particular former member (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/550753.html) of this comm.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

So, people tend to regurgitate someone else's writings? Hello? I am still on the Inernet, am I?
...checks...
Yes I am.

Big deal.

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

Exactly. As long as people aren't profiting from said work, it shouldn't be a big deal.

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

I once subconsciously plagiarized a Cracked.com joke comparing the wisdom of Admiral Motti's taunting of Darth Vader to that of making anti-Semitic slurs against a Jewish boss, which kinda freaked me out when I realized that I hadn't even known I was doing it, but that's as far as it ever got, because I'd actually kinda like to meet the man whose opinions and life stories are similar enough to my own that I could plagiarize them.

... Actually, no, I wouldn't, because he'd probably be a dick.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

Ewww. Stealing jokes is bad, man.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Why do I always miss the good drama?

WHY????

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. :(

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

Do I need to consult the Google to see where this came from? :P

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Where's my magic 8 ball when I need it?

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

I'll be the first person on the mod team to say openly that in this case I personally (and not as a mod) think that there was genuine ill will from the person(s) who raised the matter, and not any real concern for what is "right".

Well reserached posts take a long time to make, and it is easy to fall into copy/paste paragraph mode from sources when in a hurry.

From my POV the most important thing is to just name the sources at the bottom of the post, and most else can be forgiven, since this is neither article, paper, book nor thesis.

My fear in the wake of this is only one: that there will be fewer long and interesting and well researched posts in the future, due to this fake whiteknighting on behalf of some haters.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Evidently it was embarrassing enough to nuke the whole incident, ban the whistle-blower, and then launch into some kind of lecture. If the appropriate attitude is "it isn't a big deal", then the reaction involved completely contradicts that. Which is it? No big deal? Big deal?

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

Plagiarism: 90% laziness, 5% ignorance, 5% innocent accident, 100% avoidable.

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

Please cite your source for this data.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Deleting the record smacks of CYA cowardice, just so you know. Banning people goes against the founding spirit of the community. The only issue here is a clique covering its tracks and putting it back on the whistle-blower.

You make Julian Assange cry.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

Oh really? Then why make this post?

As one who hasn't been charged with anything, I still say that that post was personal, vindictive and entirely created to make drama.

I only wish I had deleted it myself, single handedly.

And I would delete it over and over if I had the chance.

Fake whiteknigting to create drama is a pet peeve of mine, and people who feed off of drama are too. And I don't care two tosses what "we" look like or if Assange cries like a choirboy.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

So, I got a good nights sleep last night, nice dinner, dishes done, what new around here?

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Same thing as every night - trying to take over the world. Oops, that was just me.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Turn around and you miss all the action.
Who forgot to cite sources? Hope it wasn't me again.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Several people. Apparently naming names will get you a ban, though, so...

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Plagiarism cannot be tolerated in the community, as it violates Section XIII of the Terms of Service and could put the community or its users at risk.

Section XII isn't covering what happened here, just a FYI. Someone is really over reacting.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Ironically, in this post, I'm gonna have to demand a citation for that assertion. What law is LJ subject to when it references intellectual property? What is required to make "fair use" (if any such exception exists under that law) of another's IP? Would you say that plagiarism is, at least, a misuse of another's IP?

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Just as a query to those of you saying this was fake white-knighting and inappropriate: how does one call out plagiarism without citing to incidents of plagiarism? Specific instances would, it seems to me, be absolutely necessary to substantiate what is, IMO, an extremely serious charge.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Certainly not by putting the pictures of the people being called out on display and encouraging the audience to shoot them with darts.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

The sudden but coordinated attack by the usual suspects shouldn't be surprising at all. They had been waiting for their moment for a long time, they sniffed blood, then attacked. It's so natural and expected.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. The usual suspects jumped on the first possibility to expunge a party not otherwise liked. It is truly embarrassing and shameful. How very expected.

[nairiporter.livejournal.com]

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Assess the issue, make your conclusions, make appropriate amendments to your behavior, adjust the rules to make them more adequate. Deal.

Let's move on.

[atasharuku.livejournal.com]

Dammit! I always miss the drama! >.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Just accuse the mods of engaging in an unspoken collusion to pass off political work of others as their own, note how they make a list of "recommened" posts utilizing this cribbed material, note how they endlessly quote, link and re-link to each others fake work, and you'll have some good drama in no time.

In the words of a very wise woman:

Oops, I did it again!

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

So out of the innumerable great posts that the "called-out" people have written, they probably ganked what, 10 articles? I wish I could maintain that rate. I call jealousy.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

You're a talented writer, ganker: feel NO jealousy ;)

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Long overdue.

I had asked for this rule a year ago. I believe I had talks with abomvubuso, htpcl and at the time over somebody's plagerism. I forget how we resolved it. I think I was told just to accept apology and let it be.

It's too easy just to link, or somehow indicate where you got quote from. Passing a quote off as your own is just a slimey thing to do.

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

If you had brought it to my attention and I didn't adequately address it at the time then I apologize. I accept full responsibility for it either way.

That being said while the person in question only brought it up to cause drama, it doesn't change the fact that plagiarism is a very serious issue. I don't think those who did it were twirling their mustaches over their fiendish schemes, nor were they trying to somehow profit off the work of others. They were probably being lazy is all. I'm not saying this as an excuse as much as trying to keep things in perspective.

I'm glad all this happened, drama aside.

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

I think the perpetrators should be severely punished, and their scalps hanged on the highest pylon for everyone to see! The person who reported them should be made mod immediately and everybody should bow down to our new overlord and beg for mercy...

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

"...by the hair of their chinny, chin, chin"
-Joseph Jacobs, 1890

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Banning is bad form. Not citing is excusable. Not great, but with the time pressures folk get and trying to produce talking points..... This post should have been enough to have dealt with the issue. You didn't have to either ban anosognosia or make him a mod as someone has opined. Both options are superfluous. The point has been made about plagiarism, and the point has been addressed. Anything else was an overreaction.

[mybodymycoffin.livejournal.com]

Not citing is excusable.

The problem, though, is that it was mods who were plagiarizing did so multiple times, and they've done their best to destroy the evidence and now are doing their best to make it seem like they aren't just getting rid of the messenger.

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

I haven't been around for the last several days, so I have NO idea what this is all about. Is it about not crediting quotes from online or other sources used in comments, or is it about using someone else's comment in your comment? I don't recall doing either, so I believe I'm okay!

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

No, as noted by other users there were several posts across the years where either the whole post or a majority of it was reworded articles or straight cribbing. The seriousness stems from the notoriety of the users.

[namey.livejournal.com]

Without knowing the exact folks involved (posts stick around in the RSS feed, but without OP name), and agreeing that attribution is important when it applies:

This is silly. If there's somebody else that's posted something somewhere that agrees with my opinion on these kinds of subjects -- hell, especially political subjects -- things are going to look pretty damn close to that something somewhere.

Frankly, the whole "must be your own words" rule in general seems like a crock; that somebody else has said better than I can (and my case, that's pretty damn common) doesn't mean it's not worth opening the topic.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

This looks like a liberal issue. They tend to use sources and evidence here, while the conservatives just make stuff up and pass it off as fact.

I sense partisan bias here!

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

Better watch out when you say that. I've noticed that most of the Mods here seem to be conservatives or "centrists", i.e., fiscal conservatives who don't want to be taxed but social liberals who like to get laid without having to worry about it. XD