[identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics


In one of Carl Sagan's last interviews on May 27, 1996, Charlie Rose asked Dr. Sagan's opinion about a frightening scientific survey with the results published in the New York Times, which showed Americans lack of knowledge regarding the most fundamental scientific facts: e.g. the worst showing came when those surveyed were asked to define scientific terms. Only about 9 percent knew what a molecule was, and only 21 percent could define D.N.A., the genetic material. But even more fundamental questions stumped many: less than half knew that the Earth orbits the Sun annually. [lol whut!?] Nevertheless, there is enthusiasm for research, except in some fields like genetic engineering and nuclear power that are viewed with suspicion.



Nearly 13 years later, the results aren't any better. In 2009, the California Academy of Sciences commissioned a survey, and the results were just as dismal as the report in the 1996 New York Times article: "Despite its importance to economic growth, environmental protection, and global health and energy issues, scientific literacy is currently low among American adults. According to the national survey commissioned by the California Academy of Sciences:

* Only 53% of adults know how long it takes for the Earth to revolve around the Sun.
* Only 59% of adults know that the earliest humans and dinosaurs did not live at the same time.
* Only 47% of adults can roughly approximate the percent of the Earth's surface that is covered with water.*
* Only 21% of adults answered all three questions correctly.

In the course of the interview with Charlie Rose, Sagan reiterated his points made in his then published book The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark. The book examines at great length topics such as "pseudo-science" that seem to never fail to capture the public's interest and gullibility: Christian Science, creationism, astrology, alien abductions, crop circles, etc. The book also includes a very personal reflection on Sagan's mortality weaved into ultimate questions of life after death and the existence of God, abortion, and new age religions.

According to Thomas Jefferson: the importance of having a knowledgeable electorate is critical for a successful society and democracy; it simply wasn't enough to enshrine rights in a Bill of Rights or a Constitution. We live in a world so differently technologically than Jefferson's, and collectively we've failed Jefferson's warnings. Sagan complained about a lack of scientifically informed Congressional leaders: as of this writing, there is only one current member of Congress who is a licensed professional engineer – Joe Barton of Texas; and only 8 percent of Congress has at least one math, science, or engineering degree.

*** Fun and extra stuff ***
Carl Sagan and Charlie Rose interview:



Find out how what your scientific literacy is by taking this short on-line quiz.


The WMAP within a proposed model of the universe's shape.

Several physicists and cosmologists now believe the Universe is shaped like a 12 sided soccer ball, and since that article was published, there's been some interesting developments since, including Alexander Kashlinsky's discovery of Dark Flow, where several large clusters of galaxies are moving towards something beyond the edge of the known universe. Since the area these galaxies are moving towards is a cold area on the WMAP (a map of the Universe when it was only about 400,000 years old), some see it as evidence of an alternative universe near ours, attracting nearby bodies. Theoretical physicist Laura Mersini-Houghton of University of North Carolina (GO TARHEELS ;) has some empirical evidence to back up Kashlinksy's work.
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Date: 16/6/11 22:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dv8nation.livejournal.com
If you're an adult and don't know the word "annually" then I'm cool with calling you dumb.
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Date: 16/6/11 22:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
This is a natural and, in fact, normal reaction. People remember what they need to know. Most people don't need to know these things, so they don't. We could do the same thing about net security - something people most interact with daily - and I bet most people would respond dismally. This is the result of specialized knowledge, and why I like technocracy. I don't know much about economics or physics, so I turn to physicists.

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Date: 16/6/11 22:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
I don't know who any of these people are, or what they're talking about.

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Date: 16/6/11 22:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
What I mean is: is there some crucial connection between science literacy and theoretical cosmology and democracy? I can't think of any. Pop-science culture is more unbearable than reality TV. Yes yes, we know, you've read magazines and some books, you're so smart. My god, you read a book full of analogies and now you think you know what the Universe looks like. Well gosh, how ever can we attain to the ranks of such genius?
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Date: 16/6/11 22:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] muse-misery.livejournal.com
That test is lacking clicky boxes :(. I did fairly well but should have done better.

And I completely agree with pannokah, so I don't really need to as repeat what they've said.

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Date: 16/6/11 22:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
While those may be a decent barometer, I think scientific reasoning and comprehension is far more valuable that rote fact recollection. Sure, I can answer all those questions but I'd much rather see someone detail the importance of scientific facts and how they're derived and applied. Otherwise we'll end up with a Victorian-esque rote repetition.

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Date: 16/6/11 22:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
Is that second one Michelle Bachmann? Republican women all seem to favor those beehive/50's hairdos.

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Date: 16/6/11 22:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
I think 13 is situationally correct though a poor question.

I did enjoy getting every single one of them correct none the less. The only one I wasn't sure of was on the light/radio question.
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Date: 17/6/11 00:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
most of us here probably are smarter than the average american. We have a certain desire for political debate that would make the average american's eyes roll up in their head.
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Date: 16/6/11 23:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] usekh.livejournal.com
More Americans believe in Angels than evolution, I mean...ugh.

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Date: 16/6/11 23:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
For reals... everyone knows they both exist.
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Date: 16/6/11 23:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ytterbius.livejournal.com
My GF of 2 years has a 20 year old son, who is very very mystic about things. I've had a great time arguing with him and teaching him science (he's a college student at this point, and so is full of fanciful ideas that are in the process of evolving). I think I'm making progress!

I'm happy to say that I've imbued at least the basics of scientific thought and knowledge into several young Americans. ... So don't blame me ... :)

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Date: 17/6/11 00:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pastorlenny.livejournal.com
I wonder if Sagan knew how to change his brake pads or teach a child to swim.

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Date: 17/6/11 00:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
Stupid proles. Stupid, stupid proles. I hate them! I hate poor people! You know, people complained about poll testing and the Jim Crowe era, but no one mentions the great benefit keeping a bunch of poor stupid people from voting provided.

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Date: 17/6/11 00:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] foreverbeach.livejournal.com
Americans are low-IQ hillbilly rube fucks. That's why the rest of the world laughs at them.

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Date: 17/6/11 00:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
* Only 53% of adults know how long it takes for the Earth to revolve around the Sun.


One year. One of my birthday greetings is "Another one around the sun".

* Only 59% of adults know that the earliest humans and dinosaurs did not live at the same time.

Yikes.

* Only 47% of adults can roughly approximate the percent of the Earth's surface that is covered with water.*

70%?

* Only 21% of adults answered all three questions correctly.

I think I'm close. I didn't google. Survey me!

Thank you for all your work on the science posts, I'm loving it.

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Date: 17/6/11 00:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raichu100.livejournal.com
I view this with general skepticism. :/ I mean, I agree that there's a problem, but I'd be willing to bet most people know that the earth revolves around the sun once a year...

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Date: 17/6/11 00:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
NOPE! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14)

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Date: 17/6/11 01:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
The Smurfette of the Oompa Loompas.

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Yay - high school education!

Date: 17/6/11 01:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
Ones I got WRONG!:

2. The moon has phases because...

a. It passes into the Earth's shadow every month
b. Only the side of the moon facing the sun is illuminated
c. The moon causes tides in the oceans
d. None of the above


Fuck, I answered "A", because I actually thought it was the earths shadow that creates the phases. Gah, I suck like an American Idiot, but it was fun to learn (http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_phases.phtml).

I wonder what I thought a lunar eclipse was! LOL.



Ones I got right, but I felt were confusing:

4. You touch the inside of a window with a wooden frame on a cold day and find that the glass feels colder than the wood. This is because

a. The glass is at a lower temperature
b. Wood is a poorer heat conductor than glass
c. Wood generates more heat than glass
d. None of the above


I would think "A" was a technically correct answer, even if B is a broader explanation.


16. Which of the following best describes the ages of the solar system, the Milky Way, and the universe?

a. The sun is much younger than the universe

b. The sun and the universe are about the same age
c. The sun is about the same age as the Milky Way
d. The sun is younger than the Milky Way


D was also technically correct but doesn't speak to the universe part.

Is the test trying to determine how closely I pay attention to the questions or my science literacy?
Edited Date: 17/6/11 01:17 (UTC)

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Date: 17/6/11 01:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paedraggaidin.livejournal.com
I happened to get 100% on that test, which ain't bad for a guy who flunked out of community college and a 4-year Computer Science program (thankfully, third time was the charm).

I honestly think things like this are misleading. Sure, I complain about education too (a lot, actually), but like someone said up above, most of us use what we need to know. I took seven years worth of three different foreign languages during my school years, and whatever I may have learned is almost all gone now; I probably could have performed a variety of basic chemistry experiments right after my 10th grade Applied Chemistry class, but almost all of what I learned there is long gone, for the same reason: I had no use for it in my daily life, and no great interest in pursuing it as an amateur. I try to keep informed about things scientific, but that's because I am interested in it; not everyone is.

So only 8 percent of Congress has a math, science, or engineering degree? That's a higher percentage than the general population, I'd wager. It's also a myth largely perpetuated by mathematicians, scientists, and (especially) engineers that earning such degrees means they're far smarter than everyone else and that all "lesser" academic fields are for losers who can't hack the really hard stuff and that no one without a BS/BSE could possible understand anything about science. I'd stack any of my old history professors against an engineer any day and I'll bet my dad, who never went to college, could have run rings around any lot of brilliant astrophysicists when it came to repairing sewing machines. I think it's more important to have people with a well-rounded educational background in Congress than having a higher percentage of people from a certain field; very many (maybe a majority? I'm not sure) Congresspeople have had a liberal arts education, which means they that have been exposed to at least a basic level of math and science. Couple that with that 8% and I don't think things are all that bad.

I'm more disturbed by contemporary American civics, history, and geography education, when at least a significant minority of Americans don't vote, don't know anything (or worse, believe stupid misconceptions) about how our republic works, couldn't tell you how a bill becomes a law, couldn't point out Iraq on a map, and believe the absolute dumbest BS that's bruited about, from death panels to gay agendas to a Kenyan Muslim president to the CIA creating AIDS to kill black people.

I also think a distinction needs to be made between the minority of Christians who are Creationists/hostile to evolution and the majority of Christians, who don't have any problems with science.
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Date: 17/6/11 01:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com
my biggest complaint about science polls/surveys is that they are always badly worded. Science is all about being precise and specific yet they never can write the polls without some of the questions posed as an exercise in qualitative findings. I mean, "which best describes" - Really? what kind of "science" question is that?!

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Date: 17/6/11 01:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com
oh and I got 88% anyway.

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From: [identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com - Date: 17/6/11 11:04 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 17/6/11 02:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com
So...in summary, what are we trying to highlight here? Why can the political sector write periodicals/articles/papers in layman's terms? And, why cannot the scientific community do the same?? is that the question we are begging?

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Date: 17/6/11 02:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] op-tech-glitch.livejournal.com
Um, actually I have no idea whatsoever who the person on the right is.

Viva la Carl!

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Date: 17/6/11 09:02 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nano-muse.livejournal.com
She is...actually, I don't really know, either.

She is a Kardashian, I think, who is famous because...well, for absolutely no reason at all, actually. They aren't anyone particularly important and they never really did anything of note - but they got their own reality TV show (which is essentially just following them around in their day-to-day lives), and now they're famous.

It's depressing, actually.

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From: [identity profile] op-tech-glitch.livejournal.com - Date: 17/6/11 09:24 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 17/6/11 05:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] root-fu.livejournal.com
American adults flunk basic science

No surprise there.

As expected of my American komrades!

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Date: 17/6/11 08:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
Who's the chick on the right side? I don't know her.

HA! :P

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From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com - Date: 17/6/11 09:09 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 17/6/11 08:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Stupidity is a constant (roughly), regardless of the epoch.

Now, unwillingness to amend it tends to vary.

There's been some theory floating around me and my friends' circle, that nearly 95% of people are stupid. I know it sounds bad and hateful, and probably too arbitrary, but when you dig a bit deeper (i.e. when you exchange more than 2 sentences with a person, at least one of them consisting of more than 10 words), you begin to get the picture. (OK, very much depends what the sentences are). I'm sorry, you can hate what I just said, but I've become more convinced that it's true.

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Date: 17/6/11 09:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
Brb, need to research some more on that soccerball thingy. Wouldnt it be nice if the Multiverse proves itself to be related to the best-sport-evAR?

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From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com - Date: 17/6/11 11:21 (UTC) - Expand
Page 1 of 2 << [1] [2] >>

Credits & Style Info

Monthly topic:
Post-Truth Politics Revisited

Dailyquote:
"The NATO charter clearly says that any attack on a NATO member shall be treated, by all members, as an attack against all. So that means that, if we attack Greenland, we'll be obligated to go to war against ... ourselves! Gee, that's scary. You really don't want to go to war with the United States. They're insane!"

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