NH GOP Debate
14/6/11 20:33![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
kajexgrey.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
talkpoliticsI'm curious what people thought about the US New Hampshire GOP debate last night?
It was hosted by CNN and the GOP candidates included Ron Paul, Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain, Tim Pawlenty, Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum.
The debate was a beginning for all candidates to set forth their platforms. Topics covered included abortion/women's rights, the US economy, US immigration, US involvement in Syria the Middle East and continuing discussion of the Romneycare/Obamacare debate. See below for a link to the debate transcript.
Overall, I was disappointed by the lack of distinction between the candidates. This is an early debate among candidates of the same party, so obviously their platforms will be very similar, but I wanted there to be a candidate that really stood out and said, "This is why you should vote for me," not, "This is why you should vote GOP."
There was a considerable amount of tiptoeing throughout the debate. For example, Tim Pawlenty backing off his comments about calling it Obamaneycare and the very LACK of presence by Santorum. I almost left him off the list of candidates at the top because he was so unimpressive. I can't even remember what he stood for.
Of course, the ones you do remember are the ones you don't want to remember - like Herman Cain. According to him, John King took his comment out of context about Muslims. No no, he wouldn't NOT put a Muslim in the White House Cabinet. He just wouldn't feel *comfortable* putting a Muslim in the Cabinet. Oh. And why? Well, his words were "I would not be comfortable because you have peaceful Muslims and then you have militant Muslims, those that are trying to kill us. And so, when I said I wouldn't be comfortable, I was thinking about the ones that are trying to kill us, number one."
Expecting a Salt-like movie scenario during your presidency, Cain?
Bachmann received the most praise because of her quick one-liners like "Obama will be a one-term president" and her promise to repeal Obamacare: "As president of the United States, I will not rest until I repeal Obamacare. It's a promise. Take it to the bank, cash the check. I'll make sure that that happens." Cute. How? It's Democrat-controlled Senate and probably will be by the 2012 election. I love promises with no explanations.
Thoughts?
Sources:
http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2011/06/13/n_gop_debate_economy.cnnmoney/
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1106/13/se.02.html
It was hosted by CNN and the GOP candidates included Ron Paul, Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain, Tim Pawlenty, Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum.
The debate was a beginning for all candidates to set forth their platforms. Topics covered included abortion/women's rights, the US economy, US immigration, US involvement in Syria the Middle East and continuing discussion of the Romneycare/Obamacare debate. See below for a link to the debate transcript.
Overall, I was disappointed by the lack of distinction between the candidates. This is an early debate among candidates of the same party, so obviously their platforms will be very similar, but I wanted there to be a candidate that really stood out and said, "This is why you should vote for me," not, "This is why you should vote GOP."
There was a considerable amount of tiptoeing throughout the debate. For example, Tim Pawlenty backing off his comments about calling it Obamaneycare and the very LACK of presence by Santorum. I almost left him off the list of candidates at the top because he was so unimpressive. I can't even remember what he stood for.
Of course, the ones you do remember are the ones you don't want to remember - like Herman Cain. According to him, John King took his comment out of context about Muslims. No no, he wouldn't NOT put a Muslim in the White House Cabinet. He just wouldn't feel *comfortable* putting a Muslim in the Cabinet. Oh. And why? Well, his words were "I would not be comfortable because you have peaceful Muslims and then you have militant Muslims, those that are trying to kill us. And so, when I said I wouldn't be comfortable, I was thinking about the ones that are trying to kill us, number one."
Expecting a Salt-like movie scenario during your presidency, Cain?
Bachmann received the most praise because of her quick one-liners like "Obama will be a one-term president" and her promise to repeal Obamacare: "As president of the United States, I will not rest until I repeal Obamacare. It's a promise. Take it to the bank, cash the check. I'll make sure that that happens." Cute. How? It's Democrat-controlled Senate and probably will be by the 2012 election. I love promises with no explanations.
Thoughts?
Sources:
http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2011/06/13/n_gop_debate_economy.cnnmoney/
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1106/13/se.02.html
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 03:37 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 03:50 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 03:51 (UTC)How can you disagree?
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 05:54 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 07:26 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 06:18 (UTC)And if we're talking about Arial Font 8.... you can get a LOT of words in there...
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 06:27 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 03:48 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 03:58 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 04:11 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 04:54 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 11:49 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 16:04 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 05:00 (UTC)As it is, this just looks more like a wink-wink, US handshake kind of gentleman's club talk, rather than a real post in
So, yeah, I basically hate this kind of post and would wish you'd make it into a real post.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 05:44 (UTC)That being said, I am one of those Americans who gets weary of the assumed great US:centrism the rest of the world loves to thrust upon us, so you would do well not to get annoyed over something so petty as my asking about a US debate in this forum. If it helps, I'll put US in the subject line next time so you know.
An alternative to your post would have been to politely ask for a rundown and suggest in the future that I give a more comprehensive picture, to which I would have said "Yes, absolutely, that is a good suggestion, I'll be sure to do that moving forward."
Your negativity is counterproductive and your labeling is unappreciated.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 05:54 (UTC)I'm going to ask you, very politely, to edit the post with a brief summary or background.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 05:56 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 05:58 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 06:00 (UTC)I'm editing now and reposting in a few.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 06:03 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 16:18 (UTC)China is close to reaching this same level of global importance and Russia used to and may still have it (as a result of their nuke stockpile), however they don't have open elections for us to comment on and no other country anywhere has both the global power and free elections to comment on.
That means that there is actually something that non US citizens can actually contribute to discussions about US politics because our politics directly affects you.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 20:15 (UTC)DANG! I missed it!
Date: 15/6/11 18:39 (UTC)Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney are OUT, as far as I'm concerned. They think that they can pander to the special interests to get the job (re: ETHANOL subsidies, tariffs & mandates -- a hot-button issue for me).
The promising of goodies during the campaign and the rewarding of supporters later on is what is WRONG with government today--we need to face the fact that we are BROKE, already in default, and we have to stop the "politics as usual".
I live in Minnesota, and this is the most excitement here since ... uh ... Hubert Humphrey in 1968. Tim Pawlenty is better known, but he's clearly the "establishment" candidate, while Michelle Bachmann excites the party base. I got to hear her speak last year.
I really don't know much about the others, so I'm going to peruse the transcript later on ...
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 05:41 (UTC)Putting aside what you think of her policies or her leadership or her performance, Bachmann is just too easy for Democrats to demagogue to ever be the nominee. The same thing is true of Santorum. Palin, too, but I doubt she runs. Gingrich is dead in the water and while a great idea man, he is a terrible manager and a loose cannon, he'd never win. Herman Cain, leaving aside the Muslim gaffe, has a lot of positive energy and says a lot of the right things, but his lack of serious experience in politics and his unapologetic ignorance of foreign policy eliminates him from the running. So, we're down to Pawlenty and Romney. Romney-Care sticks in my craw much like McCain-Feingold stuck in my craw on the last go around. I like T.Paw quite a bit, but he I'm not sure he is willing to be the BAMF he has to be if he is going to win.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 05:47 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 11:18 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 16/6/11 06:09 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 05:53 (UTC)I'm disappointed Herman Cain didn't appear better. He was strong with every statement, but there's something to be said for no experience. He's trying to push for change, but in doing so I'm afraid he's making himself out to look the fool. Comments like he wouldn't feel comfortable with a Muslim in the Cabinet and talking about limiting bills to 3 pages....while I understand why he said such a thing, it's comments like these that will be taken out of context and focused on throughout the primary rather than his whole platform.
But it's still very early. *fingers crossed*
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 06:16 (UTC)Cain speaks confidently, but speaking strongly and *being* a strong candidate are not the same thing.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 11:05 (UTC)I thought that was pretty clear: he called it "Obamneycare," because the Obama health reform bill was basically a federal version of the Massachusetts health reform bill that was passed and signed under Romney's administration. He's trying to tie Romney to Obamacare, which should probably disqualify Romney in the eyes of a lot of conservatives this cycle.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 13:55 (UTC)That is what smart successful, but politically inexperienced, people do when they enter politics at such an unforgiving level. I might have a decent curve ball for my over 40 league but if I tried it out at Citizens Bank Park this weekend I'd look like Herman Cain talking about Muslims.
there's something to be said for no experience
That was an argument for Obama. How's that working out?
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 18:45 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 11:27 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 13:50 (UTC)Fair or unfair, I'm not sure we can stomach more "Texas swagger."
(no subject)
Date: 16/6/11 00:45 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 18:44 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 22:58 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 15/6/11 07:34 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 16:12 (UTC)Frankly none of the Pols who were there are that interesting to me.
We know who and what Paul is and while he might be able to beat Obama in a general election because he will draw significant support from the anti war crowd he has no shot in hell of winning the primary.
Romney will more than likely fail for the same reason Kerry did as he is pretty much just a Republican version of Kerry with no strongly held core beliefs other than that he should be President. He might end up being the next president, because he could win the nomination by default and Obama could easily lose the presidency all on his own (it all depends on what the economy does in the next 18 months) but Romney can't actually win the presidency on his own merits.
Bachman and Santorum to a lesser extent (lesser in that he is less likely to win the nomination) could in theory win the nomination but frankly stand little chance in a general election because they will be too easy to demagogue and use the fear of their social views to get far larger democrat turnout than is likely based on Obama's policies and actions.
Cain would beat Obama handily in the general election but he is clearly in so far over his head on foreign policy issues and coming from so far out in left field that I don't think he has any real chance to win the nomination, plus the fact that he used to be one of the regional Fed Chairmen is going to really count against him with a lot of the Tea Party types that a candidate like him will need to win.
That leaves Pawlenty and the best I can say about him is Meh.
Frankly though my hope is that the Republican nominee does not come from this list because of the 3 who actually have a chance of winning the nomination I don't like any of them.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 18:19 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 18:55 (UTC)Second his strengths and weaknesses as a candidate are much the same as Obama's in terms of his ability to speak well and lack of any clue in the Foreign Policy arena (which means his foreign policy weakness will hurt him more against his fellow Republicans than it will against Obama)
Third his economic knowledge and message is far stronger than Obama's. Liberals will try to spin it as worn out trickle down economics (as someone did above) but that message will only play to their base anyway, Cain's cred as someone who has actually run a very successful business and served as in the Fed should play very well in a general election where people are looking for economic solutions.
Fourth, he is the ultimate outsider with a made for tv movie life story and he would be running in an era where distrust of establishment politicians is at an all time high.
Fifth, his social views are not so far over the line that he will scare anyone into voting against him.
All of this is of course predicated on the idea that Obama will be a severely wounded candidate because of continued weak economic performance and the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya dragging on by the time of the general election. If he somehow manages to extract us from those wars without taking a major PR black eye or military defeat and the economy is robustly in recovery by this time next year it won't mater who the Republicans nominate, Obama will waltz to victory. Thing is I think the odds of either of those things happening are near 0.
(no subject)
Date: 15/6/11 19:51 (UTC)I don't agree with this one, but he had been good at keeping his more (IMO)disgusting social views out of stories about him recently. But there is of course the fact that I am much more socially liberal than the majority of America so yes many wouldn't care about some of his views.
Jackass Parade
Date: 15/6/11 22:55 (UTC)(no subject)
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