What About Rights for Men in Abortion Cases?

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

A billboard in New Mexico is taking drivers by surprise:



The billboard shows 35-year-old Greg Fultz smiling down at the blank outline of a baby in his arms.

Now he's being taken to court by his ex-girlfriend for harassment and violation of privacy. Strangely, the decision in favor of the Westboro Baptist Church is helping Fultz. His lawyers are arguing that as offensive as the message is, it falls in line with free speech, using the Westboro decision as precedent. "My argument is: What Fultz said is the truth," says Todd Holmes, Fultz's attorney. That fact is currently being contested - friends of the woman in question say she had a miscarriage, not an abortion.

Fultz says (via Twitter), "I never made this campaign about one person my message was about some father somewhere dealing with abortion." The woman he had a relationship is never mentioned on the billboard. GEFNET is his own company and Coalition About Needed Information (CANI) is a group set up by Fultz on Facebook, so it seems this was all privately funded or maybe even funded through donations.

I agree with his message, but this isn't necessarily the approach I would have taken. I would have kept the worded message, but maybe used a stock image or something instead of his own picture. Using his own image puts him and the woman in question at risk for harassment and public scrutiny, which neither party deserves. If it comes to light that she had a miscarriage and not an abortion, then the billboard should be changed or removed and he should issue a public apology. Other than that, I think it's about time that there is a man willing to speak out about the rights of BOTH parties when it comes to abortion.

[Source - AP/Yahoo! News]

X-posted from mividaloca99/lj.com

Comments

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

The abortion issue isn't about rights to the child, it's about the rights over the woman's body. And because of that, yeah, the man gets no say in whether it occurs or not.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

If women had the ability to produce asexually, then I'd see your point. However, there are two parties involved.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

PLEASE NO! ;(

We've been having it so nice today...

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Just when we were at the brink of setting a new comm record for consecutive days without screening anything...

On the upside, we've just broken our own record of consecutive posts without drama.

Go on, go on don't pay attention to me.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Giving daddy's little squirt doesn't quite seem equal to nine months of pregnancy. But that's just me.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Yes. This is what my father called me. Speaks volumes to the male involvement, doesn't it.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

When more of us start having babies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNkZhcmorOw) you shall see!

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Does a rapist have the same rights? If not, why not?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

For that matter, would Josef Fritzl have those rights? If not, why not?

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

While I do agree that the confluence of abortion and child support laws are very biased against men I don't see him making that case here. This clearly seems to be both an attack on abortion in general and on his ex in particular and IMO he's an idiot for putting up the billboard.

That said, as long as there is nothing on that billboard which directly identifies the woman in question I do not see any way that the government can or even should consider any legal action against him, nor should they back her lawyers attempts to have the billboard removed.

The only people who will be able to identify her are the ones who already know one or both of them and those people will already have some preformed opinions about what really happened, opinions this billboard will not change.

[shweetnettie13.livejournal.com]

Does it make a difference to know, then, that initially, the "coalition" listed at the bottom of the billboard was "N.A.N.I." which is the ex-girlfriend's name? It's been changed since to C.A.N.I., but it DID at one point list her name identifying her (as much as a first name can, anyway)?

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

You forgot the part that the original name for his organization, that he put up on a billboard that was pulled, was N.A.N.I. Which just happens to be the name of his ex-girlfriend. And that the first billboard was paid for by a right-to-life group, who thankfully pulled their support after learning she has suffered a miscarriage, not had an abortion.

Then there's this little gem from the original story (http://www.care2.com/causes/womens-rights/blog/man-harasses-ex-via-billboard-media-and-anti-abortion-activists-help/) back in May:
Fultz said he would only state that Nani is under the age of 21.
"She was of legal age and consenting."

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

This guy should be in trouble IMO.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Where you stand on abortion comes down to how you balance competing rights among three parties -- a mother's right to "her body" and her "genetic material", a father's right to his "genetic material" and a baby's right "to life". That's clumsily worded, but hopefully clear enough.

As a man, I recognize that my contribution to the conception of my two children absolutely pales in comparison to what my wife contributed in both providing her genetic material and in carrying two different high risk pregnancies to term. If it turned out that she had been pregnant against her will, I surely believe that we would have talked about as a couple, but the final decision had to rest with her...I was not the one risking my long term health bringning a baby to full term.

Is that equal? Probably not. But I cannot think of a way to assert a man having a decision making status vis-a-vis abortion that doesn't run roughshod over the immense stake a woman has in pregnancy that a man does not.

C'est la vie.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

I've been writing a song around this issue over the last few months (I'm a fun guy!), and part of the point I'm trying to make is that guys, it's her choice, your job is to be supportive, but having said that, girls, if you have any shred of care and respect for him then this is probably a decision you should involve him with. The woman ultimately has the choice, but in a loving and respectful relationship then one would imagine this is the kind of decision you make as a couple.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Women are the ones who go through pregnancy and give birth. Therefore, whether or not to continue a pregnancy is their choice and theirs alone.

Men don't get "abortion rights," because men do not get to decide what goes on in a woman's body.

Period, end of story, thanks for playing, go home.


P.S. This case has nothing to do with abortion rights. This has to do with one man's crusade to shame and blame his ex regardless of actual circumstances (he has been quoted as saying he doesn't care if she actually had a miscarriage). He has also been threatening and joking about violence against her in his twitter, screenshots from which are here (http://s1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd516/whtrbt2011/) (from another community's post on this).

I wouldn't make him the poster-boy for your bullshit "men's rights" movement, OP. He's just a sexist, controlling douchebag who thinks that this woman should be his property because she had sex with him a long time ago.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

This man doesn't want him as a mouthpiece.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Knowing this will be a contentious post: here's a very cute mouse.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

That's not a mouse, that's a baby rabbit, you goddamn idiot-face-head.

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

It's pretty obvious that no man — no ONE, period — should be allowed to tell a woman that she has to carry a child to term, whether that someone is the father of the child or not, because they're not the ones carrying it in their bodies.

That being said? Here's a hypothetical which, in my case, was not so hypothetical:

Back in college, I had a sexual encounter (my first) with a woman, to which ... I did not consent (there's a WORD for that, yes, but I still really have issues with using that word to describe what happened to me).

I wasn't wearing protection, because I didn't expect to be having sex (I was "saving myself," silly as that sounds), and I knew from political conversations that we'd had that this woman didn't believe in abortion.

In one sense (one that didn't even occur to me at the time), I got lucky, because she didn't get pregnant, but if she had ...

What right would I have had — what right SHOULD I have had, in your all's opinion — to say, "No, I don't want to be the father to this child?"

Because if I don't believe in forcing a woman to undergo a pregnancy because it deprives her of autonomy over her own body, then I can't really justify forcing her to undergo an abortion, which in a number of ways is even more invasive and traumatic.

And yet, by respecting her choice to be a mother, it would have forced me to be a father against my will, when I hadn't even chosen to have sex in the first place, and while that's not at all physically invasive against me (I'd already made my genetic contribution), the fact of the matter is that forcing anyone to be a parent (or to support a child) will affect both their own lives and their child's life for at least the next 18 years, and in reality, for the rest of ALL of their lives.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

The most that could be done was to say that you're not the father/responsible/liable for said child.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

My dad called me "little squirt" when I was younger.

It's a common phrase that speaks to the man's level of contribution.

If men could be raped and forced to carry it to term, there would be less of a debate.

Greg Fultz didn't choose his mate very well.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Gosh we've been over this so many times that at the moment the baby in my womb is crying out loud: "STOP IT! STOP! I'M STILL HEARING YOU!"

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

He must be using Morse code.

[foreverbeach.livejournal.com]

The truly stunning aspect of this story is that some woman was not too repulsed by that giant pile of fat to mate with it.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Maybe Ruffies?

Seriously, I thought it was Weird Al from the Michael Jackson spoof "I'm Fat."

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

I think that women have a moral responsibility in many / most cases to negotiate this decision with the father. However, in the absence of concerns about fetal person hood, legal rights should go to the woman.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

How does one negotiate? Like, we'll have a half a pregnancy? Or 1/3rd a child? Or, "ok, you can only be pregnant for four months." "Negotiate" in this instance seems like an awfully clumsy word.

[hey-its-michael.livejournal.com]

Until men are both willing and able to sacrifice their physical autonomy to carry a fetus to term, they get no rights in what happens to a fetus.

[okmewriting.livejournal.com]

Some women will sleep with anything it seems.

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

Shopped.

Here's the original image:

[telemann.livejournal.com]

lol oh dear.

[reflaxion.livejournal.com]

Of interesting note is the considerable disconnect between rights and responsibilities frequently seen in regards to this topic. To abort should be the woman's right and the woman's alone, but not to abort leaves the man with the responsibility of raising the child.

I wonder how many people think of this as an issue with childbirth rights that hasn't been resolved because of complexities in devising a viable solution, and how many others find it easier not to think about it at all.

[reflaxion.livejournal.com]

... leaves the man with equal responsibility of raising the child. I misspoke.

In before jackasses.

[root-fu.livejournal.com]

I'll make a prediction: abortion will be illegal or too expensive for most to afford in 1-5 years.

[noodledays.livejournal.com]

where, in the United States? I rather doubt the illegal part, but not the too expensive part since that's true for more and more people it seems. :/

Evolution at work!

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I wonder what she saw in him in the first place. I suppose she was desperate to get laid. Any guy with that kind of an attitude needs to pay a bride price.

[new-wave-witch.livejournal.com]

If he can find another uterus to put it in, then maybe. Otherwise, fuck no.

[chaoticgood0405.livejournal.com]

Other than that, I think it's about time that there is a man willing to speak out about the rights of BOTH parties when it comes to abortion.

I've seen plenty of men more than eager to wax histrionic on their opinions about abortion.

In an ideal non-planned pregnancy scenario, the couple would sit down and hold hands and discuss their situations--income, education, health, status of relationship, age, etc and come to a mutually satisfactory decision. Since there are many times that the circumstances are less than ideal, can we please just trust the woman? It is HER body. She may not wish to give potential power over her body to a guy she had simply had sex with. People are always free to talk. But no one should be able to force a woman to stay pregnant if she doesn't want to be pregnant.

Re: THIS IS TOTALLY SOMEONE WHO NEEDS TO BE A FATHER

[new-wave-witch.livejournal.com]

I haven't gotten a chance to read exact accounts of how far their case has gone in court, but, just from the little I've read from the news and editorial articles, I'm baffled that he even had a case. It's clear this has little to do with his heroism with regard to father's rights and more to do with him generally being a creepy dick.