Enemy of Israel

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Conservatives are getting a might upset over President Obama's suggestion that Israel consider moving back to 1967 borders. But I can't see winning the stalemate of peace in the Middle East by more peace talks and more heads banging against the same walls. Especially considering the Wikileaked documents that disclosed the unwillingness of Israel making any concessions what-so-ever.

Anyway I don't have anything new to say. I just wanted to start and stimulate the conversation that will no doubt be focal point over the next few days.

Comments

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

The funny part is that the "1967 borders with land swaps" point has been policy for over a decade (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/nothing-new-in-the-idea-that-67-borders-should-guide-peace-talks-updated/239162/). This controversy is entirely a product of the Republican hype machine.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

Yep, agreed.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

well the reporting (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110519/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_mideast_palestinians_1) didn't help.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

The perception (reality?) that Obama is not really all that positive toward Israel is not new (http://www.jta.org/news/article/2008/10/27/110810/opedbardash).

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

So? This speech, and the comment over the '67 borders, was absolutely in line with the last two presidents. It's not some revolutionary abandonment of the Israeli cause.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Not like there is any reason Israel should back down on anything - their $2 billion of annual free money from America will still keep coming to them regardless and they can blow the crap out of anyone attacking them.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

It's pretty clear Israel is only interested in a world without Palestine.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

No, it is pretty clear that the current government which is made of a coalition of the crazy are uninterested in a Palestinian state.

Support for the two state solution still holds a majority of Israeli opinion but for various reasons on both sides of the issue whenever a government that tries to pursue that is in power, it falls apart. People talk about the "cycle of violence" and almost never look at the electoral cycle of both Israelis and Palestinians which is looking just as intractable and just as mind-bogglingly stupid:

1) Israelis elect a government inclined to negotiate. Political pressures on both sides push Israelis into offering less than optimum settlements and push Palestinians into not accepting them.

2) Palestinians, in frustration with the process, support more radical and militant factions.

3) Israelis then oust their sane government in favor of jackholes like Netanyahu.

4) Jackhole governments accelerate settlements and ignore Palestinian leaders.

5) Palestinians radicals up violence. Israeli jackhole governments retaliate. Lather rinse repeat.

6) Israelis oust jackhole government in favor of one willing to negotiate and we start all over again.

Like I said -- Israel could use some tougher friends. And a coalition government made up of Labor, Kadima and the saner elements in Likud and which then tells the crazy minor parties who hold Likud hostage every time they govern to go get stuffed. Imagine America where a Republican majority could only govern if they kept the John Birch Society in cabinet secretary positions and you have Israel's current government.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

To be fair, so are some Palestinians anti-Semites of a sort that hasn't been seen in a few decades. Which only makes it easier for the assclowns like Sharon and Lieberman.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's not like they weren't able to defeat a large enemy coalition in six days from those borders or anything.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Conservative are upset that the axial tilt changes progressively over time.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

And unfortunately, it's going in the wrong direction.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

So, do you have any alternative resolutions for the situation?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Yes, divine-right monarchy, not that heathen atheist chicanery of Revolution. God says all authority is divinely sanctioned, so let's go back to House Windsor and ask to be an Imperial colony again.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Honestly?

Israel could use some tougher friends.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Tougher as in tough love, or tougher as in "we will kill for you"?

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

As in "tough love".

An American President openly saying pre-1967 borders is pretty astonishing.

It means it won't happen but it is a tougher opening than they've ever gotten.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Honestly, as far as I'm concerned the geopolitical reason to support Israel stopped being relevant in 1991 same as the one with Pakistan did. We have no reason to continue those Cold War alliances bereft of the actual Cold War.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

So...goodbye Germany, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Indonesia....?

[3fgburner.livejournal.com]

The problem with the 1967 borders, is that they leave Israel subject to being cut in half, any time a large-enough bunch of Arabs feels like it.

Now, we COULD simply agree to put US bases along all the borders. That way, Arabs attack, and US troops die. Then, we wipe out the attacking Arabs.

Hey, it worked in Germany.

[Only semi-sarcastic]

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

The success of th 1967 war sort of argues against that conventional wisdom. Israel defended the pre-1967 borders for nearly 20 years and then launched one hell of a successful strike against the Arabs from within those borders.

And in 1972, they came close to being rolled from the post-1967 borders.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that worked in 1948 and 1967, didn't it? I mean FFS, if Israel's military is so shitty that it can't defend a country with high-priced, rather awesome military weaponry, then it has no business calling itself a military. Perhaps Japan could use those weapons since Israel is no longer able to do what it did in the Six Days' War.

[oportet.livejournal.com]

I suggest we move back to 1967 gas prices.