The Hawkeye Pierce school of political debate.

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

I wanted to take a moment of my day out to share a bit of an epiphany I had recently brought about because of a particular thread. *ahem* Maybe its not so much of an epiphany, but I do feel the need to acknowledge it and thank my fellow Talk_Politics associates for 'getting it' implicitly.

For the most part, we've been able to hold all our views with all due seriousness and conviction without succumbing to antisocial behavior, and I want to highlight how much of a rarity that is. It's so rare, that, if I may say so, it has all but drained most of the actvity away from the other LJ boards devoted to particular ideologies. By some miracle, we have accumulated a diverse (in just about every sense of the word) population in which the majority of us are actually able to use this social network (that isn't Trademarked by Facebook, is it?) to actually be social.

As Hawkeye Pierce once noted in M.A.S.H., (and I'm paraphrasing), if we don't laugh, we'll go mad, and it seems like thankfully most of us know how to laugh, sometimes (even better) at our own expense. We aren't debating 'gods' and most of us know it.

So, thank you - to the Mods for being open (and dare I say, encouraging of?) and receptive to our quirky, off-topic shennanigans (and for contributing their own brand of the same). Thanks for Friday Lulz. Thanks to everyone here I've talked to and disagreed with while still being able to share an honest laugh.

Don't it for granted. We've got a good thing going here.

Comments

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Amen to that. It's nice to have a forum where so many people who disagree on so many things *do* form a viable political community. If everyone in those communities is part of a single bigger echo-chamber that gets boring after a while.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

I'm already mad.


I'm mad, you're mad. You have to be mad, or you wouldn't have come here.

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

Dang youtube clip won't embed. Sorry for the multiple edits. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08)

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

[3fgburner.livejournal.com]

That quote has to have been from that weenie pseudo-Hawkeye, Alan Alda. The REAL Hawkeye, Donald Sutherland, never said anything like that. He'd have said something like, "Any bets that she's a real blonde?" (about Maj. Houlihan).

Alda never managed to capture Pierce's Inner Bastard. In the movie, Frank Burns didn't even last 15 minutes, before being medevac'ed in a strait jacket.

[chron-job.livejournal.com]

Well, seeing as how the show lasted more than three times the Korean War itself, one can forgive Characters for 'growing' :)

[chron-job.livejournal.com]

> Hawkeye Pierce once noted in M.A.S.H., (and I'm paraphrasing),
> if we don't laugh, we'll go mad,

Hate to point this out... but didn't Hawkeye, in fact, go Mad?

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

Yes, but it was only temporary :)

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Dunno whatchu talkin 'bout Willis.

No really. I need some kleenex right now.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Don't know what he's talking about, either.
What is he talking about anyway?

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

BOO THIS MAN!

[telemann.livejournal.com]

YAY!!

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Good. Now say it in rhymes.

But first put a rapper napkin on your head for more credibility.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

O.O

....

a.... a... rapper napkin. I nearly fell out of my seat.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

This is... kinda humbling, ya know...

But don't it for granted!
^this should become the slogan here, methinx.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

I like it!!!!!

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

The truth is born in off-topic, no? Or was it a bit different? Dunno any more.

I'm relatively new here. When I was invited by bro to take a look at this place I thought he was kidding. A political forum on LJ. On LIVE JOURNAL? "Haha, you're so lame, bro!" That's what I told him.

Now I see I was completely wrong. And I've been to many e-places.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

I hope you bring e-protection, the internet is a dirty, dirty place.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Who added that Fun tag!? This is no fun! FFS! OMGWTFLOL.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

No this is dead serious. Like a beerboarding session in a Guantanamo bunker.
Whoever did that will face the utmost punishment, they know who they are.

[nairiporter.livejournal.com]

I like it here. That's all. Brb going off to finger myself feel good about me.

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

+1. On both (three?) accounts.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

Hey mods, when does our annual convention begin, and are you paying for airfare? I vote for Prague.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Btw it's been amazing what long swaths of time we've had without even having to intervene about anything lately, let alone screening stuff. Even in that 800+ post, wow! Not a single occasion. Gee.

...And then someone makes a silly bad remark here on this very post... and, and... that poor wittle kitteh on the comm's profile will have to wait for another 10 days to have its dream fulfilled...

I'm sad right now...

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Someone hug poor wittle moddy....
;(

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Yep. Exactly like a year ago, and a year before a year ago also. It's like Nostradamus and the End Days, they keep and keep moving forward. 12-21-2012 is the latest update btw. Get your record straight already, Nostradamus! FFS. ;-)

[spaz-own-joo.livejournal.com]

I like the idea of this, but I also feel like in being so self-congratulatory to those of us who have a sense of humour about stuff here, it's potentially construed as a passive-aggressive snub directed towards anyone *ahem* you might have tangled with recently who you feel *doesn't*.

Leaving aside the question of what I think about that exchange, I think your post can on one level be read as an example of precisely the kind of humourless personal jab that it ostensibly discourages.

Just my 2c.

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I should have waited longer. Whenever I do though, I usually forget to say anything at all.

I apologize if it comes off negatively.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

I think it's more that, if you go by political spectrum, the hardcore Republicans (i won't insult conservatives by calling them Republicans) all occupy the niche LJ communities like conservatism while the more reasonable conservatives are banned from there or find it too ridiculous, while the liberal communities are all empty because liberals are all lazy potheads.

So, the people who congregate here are more reasonable conservatives and slightly more responsible liberals.

Note that I only used those labels to draw a picture. I don't actually believe anyone is a full 'liberal' or 'conservative', for each issue it's a case-by-case basis.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

*high fives for everyone*

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

I laugh a lot in life.
But I never laugh about politics.
*thinks to make sure* Approximately 98% of the time. The majority of politics is far too important to laugh about.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Meh, life is too important to take seriously.

[jlc20thmaine.livejournal.com]

So, thank you - to the Mods for being open (and dare I say, encouraging of?) and receptive to our quirky, off-topic shennanigans (and for contributing their own brand of the same).

Thanks for the laugh. I really hope you weren't serious when you posted this part.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

That's the trick with those quirky shenanigans. You never know.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

Funny because I actually think this place is deteriorating rapidly.

I'm starting to see a whole lot of people from all political persuasions responding to what they want to believe people have said and not to what they have actually said or allowing their personal opinion of a poster block their ability to actually read what that poster is saying. I'm also seeing a decided lack of interest from pretty much everyone in even trying to understand their "opponents" views.

Honestly I'm rapidly reaching the point of giving up in this community as not being worth my time.

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

If I'm reading a different interpretation in what you said than what you meant to be presented, then it is because you didn't use enough precise language. It's impossible to mistake what was said when you've defined everything to the last jot and tittle, making your presumptions, bases, clauses, and exceptions clear.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Wonder how much hope you have after the recent Obamacare topic.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

Seen worse :)

[ccr1138.livejournal.com]

I find this thread sadly lacking in cat macros.

The macro spirit has gone extinct:

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

A Few Words from *ahem*

[paft.livejournal.com]

Judging from the context of this post, I am the Goofus to the majority Gallant being congratulated in this OP. The “particular thread” mentioned here is plainly this one:

http://community.livejournal.com/talk_politics/947594.html

which includes an extensive list of complaints from you and others about my presumed shortcomings here as a poster

Offline obligations have held up my response, but I’ve also been delayed by my desire to choose my words carefully. I like this community. No, I don’t love it, and no, as a veteran of Internet discussion boards, I don’t consider it exceptional or the best board I’ve ever joined. I summed up the reality of this forum last year when I told another poster, who was asking why my user name was being invoked by you and others as an insult:

"For a significant portion of the people who post frequently here, it's about personality. Not facts. Not logic. Not discussion. Not actual interest in issue and ideas. Personality. And turf. And attitude. Lots and lots of attitude."

I’ve seen nothing so far that would change this assessment. This doesn’t make Talk_Politics a terrible board. There are people here who seem to know what an intelligent argument entails. There are many, many others who don't. Which makes this place normal, as internet forums go. Fair to middling. And while it’s great that you find Talk_Politics a comfortable venue for socializing, I don’t think my definition of ‘honest laugh” coincides with yours. Your attempt some time ago to turn my username into a byword just doesn’t jibe with the “it’s all in good fun” premise of your OP.

Sure, you can stay within the realm of “honest laughs” by briefly hyperbolizing the classic liberal you’re arguing with into a radical leftist crackpot. It stops being an “honest laugh” when you base your entire argument on that hyperbole. And there’s nothing honest about painting that liberal as a “resident left-ideologue” to other people when that liberal has not made any policy statements that would actually qualify her as such a thing. “Just kidding” stops being “just kidding” when you extend the “joke” into that kind of smear.

I stopped worrying about whether or not everyone liked me and whether or not I was wunnathagang back in 8th grade. So, I'm not going to change the way I post messages and debate on this board

In other words, I will continue to ask questions – and as best I can answer those put to me. I will continue to tether my comments to reality by invoking pesky things like books and authors on the subjects being discussed. I will continue to refrain from personal insults and trolling. If I am interested in a discussion and have the time, I will continue taking part in it. And I will continue being a liberal, which means that the overwhelming majority of my OPs are going to be from a liberal standpoint, criticizing right wingers.

If you'd like to see me cede some points in future debates, make an effort to actually debate. Try offering facts that challenge my arguments. Try backing them up. I can't guarantee my mind will be changed, any more than your mind is guaranteed to be changed by my arguments, but “Quirky shenanigans,” like histrionics, word games, insults, making faces at me, badmouthing me to other posters, etc. just aren't going to convince me that I'm wrong, and you're right.

I’m funny that way.

Re: A Few Words from *ahem*

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

"Judging from the context of this post, I am the Goofus to the majority Gallant being congratulated in this OP. The “particular thread” mentioned here is plainly this one..."

Something which most people would still be unaware of had you not just drawn attention to it. and I didn't call you names. You were the inspiration or my post, true, but you aren't the subject of it, which is why 1.) I did not name names, and 2.) I spent the vast bulk of the totality of it expressing my thoughts on what I see as the necessity of humor in discussing politics as something we have become good at here, which had until now had been realized only non-verbally to myself, but it is a subject I have a personal connection to.

You see, while you were getting over what other people thought of you in 8th grade, (to your credit), it was about the same time in my life when I stopped taking myself with a deadly seriousness when conversing with others. Prior to that time, I had made few friends, in no small part as I see it now, because even lighthearted ribbing was taken by me as reason to be wounded. Thankfully, I had several great friends in high school who chipped away successfully at my seriousness and allowed me to, as I see it, have a more balanced outlook on life. Even now, if someone says something which may be only borderline-appropriate, I just let it slide and assume the best. So yeah, I have personal feelings on the issue of where humor fits into the serious aspects of life, discussing politics included.

"It stops being an “honest laugh” when you base your entire argument on that hyperbole. And there’s nothing honest about painting that liberal as a “resident left-ideologue” to other people when that liberal has not made any policy statements that would actually qualify her as such a thing. “Just kidding” stops being “just kidding” when you extend the “joke” into that kind of smear."

The thread you linked to had nothing to do with derrogatory humor. It had everything to do with letting loose with the occasional wit, either in macro or text, or other, which is simply and only intended to lighten the mood.

We tend to do that here, and it's not mean spirited or nasty (most of that gets caught by the mods anyway, if it really is personal, mean spirited, or otherwise derrogatory). So while yes, we do get on one another's nerves from time to time and we express frustration, oftentimes its just the tactics we unload on and not as often at each other personally. One would have to be asleep to fail to see all the examples of non-threatening humor on display here on a regular basis, usually to diffuse oppressive seriousness that daily news thrusts upon us to discuss. That is what I was defending.

You'll have to link me to the comment I made which so offends you, because if it was a year ago, then I likely have no recollection of it. If I review it and if need be, apologize for it, then perhaps we might be able to come to some sort of understanding.