What are you in it for?

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Greetings, [Poll #1716047]
And my, rather slightly-stupidly-idealistic take on that (guess I got brainwashed by the linked OP during all this time): While the majority of people may go on internet forums to dump their ideas onto people's heads, chances are they'd learn something new in the process. Save for that tiny layer of people who are solely around to have fun at others in a very sick way. Those don't last too long, though.

Even if there are 1000 people with zero contribution apart from the occasional drive-by snark, I'm still willing to pick up those 20 among them who are capable and willing to bond with people of a different conviction and work their minds over even the most controversial of topics. It's been a pleasure to interact with those, and if I have to endure tons of other chaff in the process, I'ma go for it anyway.

No one promised gold is found in every hole. But when it's found, it's so SO shiny!

So what are YOU in it for?

Comments

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

One should really listen the other one, if not for anything else, at least for a practical reason. If you really want to demolish an opponent's point, you better be aware what that point actually is. And you can't achieve that if you keep yelling whatever talking points you've got stuck in that hollow head of yours (you/yours - as in everybody).

(Cue panookah yell: Shut up!)

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

But, but, strawmen are so much fun!

Also, SHADDUP!

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

But does it really matter? You're not going to win anyone over to your side anyway, so why bother?

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

I use it as a gauge to see what the current popular opinions are, along with other political communities I drop in on.

I would be interested in a forum that was dedicated to seeking practical solutions to fix political issues, but it would be a futile effort. The USA itself is populated mostly by ideologues and idealists for whom practicality is a foreign word. One could have, say, a practical solution that would institute acceptable budget cuts while still keeping the teacher union collective bargaining, complete with irrefutable proofs and evidence to satisfy the best skeptic, and I would bet the majority of this forum would reject it for not appealing to their particular Political Holy Prophet.

So absent any practical purpose, I would say my goal is primarily located under "To see how other people think. And then mock them." and "To throw in funky shit (well to ME it's funky), and then lol at the reactions" although my take on all that is of Utter Seriousness, politics being the Ultimate Serious Business.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

OK but why scout for the popular opinions at the moment, if not for intellectual curiosity / to draw some dividend from it? Or a hedonistic/voyeuristic pleasure to learn the thoughts someone else is having?

Re: ideologues vs practitioners. I reiterate: No one is "100% ideologue" or "100% pragmatist". There's always a certain ratio between those. Besides some ideologues can and do provide enormously detailed data basis for their mind games.

[taurus-1.livejournal.com]

Another option, if possible: I want to change the world by using historically-approved peaceful means -- by spreading the Word. Whatever it means :)

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

So you voted correctly: "To state and re-state my beliefs for everybody to hear".

I'd also combine that with: "To convert people to my convictions because I'm always right".

Thus you get someone who's changing the world.

But remember: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

One can't escape from the temptation to try to convert someone to their 'Side'. If that fails, we get bitter.

But yeah, I do use fora like this one to get somewhat deeper perspective on things that otherwise tend to get overlooked by the mass media.

"And add some extra, just for you" said the poet.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Because I'm always right (excepting when I'm wrong).

Because every event/action/schema in a polarised polity needs more than one testimony of witness.

Because Truthiness.

Because I like my opinions.

Or the killer: Because it amuses me.

Re: "And add some extra, just for you" said the poet.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

True, there are as many Truths as the number of people who are looking at them. (Uh, huh, ain't I a poet too?)

Also, it's "sayeth". You're a Briton FFS, speak Brtannisch!

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

I expected a "shut up!" interjection. You're becoming (slightly) unpredictable!

Guy's often too idealistic for me at times, which I disagree with. Then he gets extremely pragmatist. I'm so like, which is which, and WTF dude? But that's enigmatic, and mysteries are interesting.

So what are YOU in it for?

[mrsilence.livejournal.com]

There has been many a time when I have argued and argued my position to death, in the face of fierce and bitter opposition, just knowing that I will smash my opponents argument to bits with my NEXT super duper logical widget of genius!....only to fall, finally, into disillusion as it degenerates into name calling and with us walking each unconvinced.

Then, after moving on, I find myself thinking about it a bit...and thats when something REALLY interesting happens..sometimes.

Often, after re-hashing all of the arguments in my mind, I conclude that my debating opponent is just not ready yet to see how clever and smart my position is, and how mean and contradictory their position be.....BUT sometimes I realise they really did have a good point or two...or that my own argument has some glaring hole in it, which, not never articulated it such forceful fashion previously, I had overlooked, so that I see that my entire position is untenable and requires rethinking, often shifting in paradigm somewhat towards my opponents arguments position.

So, despite a real and fierce clash with neither myself or others apparently giving any ground, I think that minds are capable of being changed by this process of debate. I've experienced it myself and I think it only reasonable to think that others have had their minds changed as well in this fashion.

I have seen many statements, particularly recently, where others have thought that such combative debate is actually a futile process, but frankly, I know for a fact that you're completely wrong. Incredibly, stupidly wrong. You don't know how wrong you are. (who wants a 'fight' about that?)

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

It's a great and cleansing experience to have your mind changed in such circumstances, but one has to be honest with themselves, if not in public, at least when alone with their thoughts. Somehow I think there are people who refuse to be honest with themselves, and for what reasons, I don't know.

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

I have to say that none of the options I am presented with seems right.

So here is mine.

I happen to be interested in what is going on in the world, as well as my own country.

Yes, I have got the notion of voting on certain issues, even on running for public office, because I do have sertain ideas and even what I would call 'personal convictions' on things like abortion, electoral reform, crime prevention, environmental protection, and stuff like that.

however, just like scientists publish their theories and then let them undergo ' peer review', I like to put my ideas out there in the arena of public debate and see what others say.

Sometimes, people will disagree, but not change my mind by very much. I have a view that eating meat is ok within limits and tend to go for free range, local grown and organic because I can afford it.

And then some Americans bombard me with info on how places in Kansas. Well, ok, I agree that this isn't very good practice, but the problems in raising beef in Kansas are not a sufficient argument to stop me eating Welsh lamb, I'm afraid.

On the other hand, I flagged up an article in the news recently, about government spending and suggested a government appointed supremo from the private sector go in and look for financial savings, saying that we could pay him a commission on what they save the taxpayer.

But then somebody came up with a better idea - make every government department publish their spending. then let the press pick it over and people decide if it was worth the money.

So, here, I think that this community has made a difference to how I will vote and what I will say at party conference.

I short, I come hear to air my views and to take notes from others ' working in the field'. Putting an idea 'out there' in here is like a scientific experiment. you see what comes back and sometimes you find out you were right , and sometimes you find out you were wrong - but you can always learn from the experience.

I have to say that i have learned a good deal from people on both sides of the aisle in this community.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

And then some Americans bombard me with info on how places in Kansas. Well, ok, I agree that this isn't very good practice, but the problems in raising beef in Kansas are not a sufficient argument to stop me eating Welsh lamb, I'm afraid.


I'd nominate this as "Quote of the Day" if I had the foggiest idea what you are talking about.

[lai-choi-san.livejournal.com]

To see how other people think and learn stuff. Seriously, this community is much more instructive about American politics than any American news site (btw : I'm not American).

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

Agreed ! :)

And that bit about quantum physics was really ... cool !

[mijopo.livejournal.com]

To learn stuff cos I'm kinda dumb
To debate and argue because it's just so fun
To convert people to my convictions because I'm always right
To state and re-state my beliefs for everybody to hear
To dump / check for new macros and Youtube vids
To see how other people think. And then mock them.
To teach others stuff cos I know SO much!
To throw in funky shit (well to ME it's funky), and then lol at the reactions
The hell should I know? I'm here, so deal with it!
This poll is biased and its author is a fucking morAn.

I sense butthurt, what happened, htpcl? (I hope it wasn't my insufficiently weighty Kuhn post, I'm still happy to take it down if you'd like.)

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Huh? I'm trying to have a cool conversation with people here. Why is it that you see hurt (butt, belly or head) everywhere? And no, you're not the center of my universe. Only yours. :-P

[mijopo.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm here to talk politics. In that sense this community is aptly named.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

I'm becoming cyclical (http://community.livejournal.com/talk_politics/923701.html?thread=71099701#t71099701). :-D

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

You can't learn if you don't hear the other side. *shrug*

[torpidai.livejournal.com]

Nor can you learn w/o making mistakes (IMHO)

[reflaxion.livejournal.com]

I don't really know how to answer this - mostly because I've been asking myself the question for a while now.

When I started posting in politicsforum, back before the talk_politics schism, I took care to post with an inquisitive and open mind. Many other people at the time were doing the same, and I thought that was great. There was a lot of good conversation going on, and although I felt I didn't know nearly as much as everyone else, I felt like I could still take part, asking questions and providing my opinions.

That... didn't last. I don't know if the attitudes and posts I had expected were normal at the time or just a phase, but eventually, more contributors on both sides began to take the hard line of stubborn partisan division. More and more, it felt that the shouting matches which are so common in today's political discourse had taken over conversation.

I don't know where, but somewhere along the line, I also became bitter and jaded, and turned into one of those myself. Eventually, I realized I no longer had the drive to continue trying to engage in rational discourse in this kind of an environment and had become that which I hated about political discussion myself, and I drastically cut back on posting. To say I stopped would be a lie, unfortunately, and I seem to have become one of those drive-by snarkers that you mentioned.

The truth is I find it difficult to post anything of substance anymore. The topics in which civil discourse is usually found tend to involve a deep knowledge of things that I usually don't know anything about, while the more broad and general topics usually end up as shouting contests. I try to participate in the broad topics, so I don't feel left out entirely, but too quickly I find myself annoyed at the lack of substance that I perceive from those who post solely to spread their doctrine of "I'm always right" throughout the forum.

So, in the end, I don't know how to answer your poll.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Some very useful perspective you provided there. Well I guess what we can do is to enjoy it while it lasts. I mean enjoy it to the full.

[weswilson]

I learn a lot from watching two sides confront each other. I feel I am more qualified to address any given political discussion if I'm seen people comprehensively challenge one another.

[majortom-thecat.livejournal.com]

I picked "To see how other people think" but I'm not so much in it for the mocking.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

You take the whole package. So you're for the mocking, OK, recorded that! :-D

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

My teaching mentor told me in August of 1993 that education is what happens when two or more minds come together to explore something they find interesting.

When it works, it can be pretty cool.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

It gives me something to do when I have some time to kill.

Alternately, you could add mental exercise to the list.

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

I have no interest for converting other people to whatever convictions. It is a pointless excercise. There are enough serious situations IRL to afford to be dense or argumentative online as well. I am here to share and to be taught.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

i'm here for paft, steve-o...and football updates.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Steve has been off for, like, a quarter of a year.

[kawaiimamimi.livejournal.com]

I'm here for the macros and occasional puns. :D

[oportet.livejournal.com]

People who talk politics in a social setting tend annoy the shit out of me, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum. I come here to rid myself of those urges, so I don't give in to hanging around those people, or worse - become one of them.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I'm here to discuss politics with people whom I agree with and disagree with, some of the latter I have very much respect for (Geezer_also and Paft) and I might note I like the more laid-back attitude here relative to other places.

[paft.livejournal.com]

To talk about politics with other adults.