talkpolitics | You're a Mean One, Grinch Alert

Entry tags:

You're a Mean One, Grinch Alert

Robert Jeffress:

Well, you know every year people bemoan the War on Christmas and I thought, “Let’s do something positive about it,” so we created this website, Grinchalert.com, it allows people to go on our website and, uh, if they’ve encountered a business that shuns Christmas they can talk about it and put that business on the naughty list but if they find a business that celebrates Christmas, they can put that business on the nice list. It’s just a fun way to say to businesses and organizations, “You don’t have to bow to political correctness. It’s okay to say, “Merry Christmas…”

John Roberts: What if businesses who are on the naughty list lose customers?... Would it be a good idea to affect people’s business at this season, which can be make or break for some people, and in this economic climate?

Jeffress: John, let me make it clear, we have never even hinted at a boycott…

"Never even hinted at a boycott?" Really? Here’s what Jeffress said on Fox:

Jeffress: One great example in the Dallas area, there was a bank that took down a Christmas tree because they said it would offend customers. Well, there was another bank that got put on our nice list, the Providence Bank, because they put up a nativity scene. The CEO told me yesterday that there were customers changing from the bank that removed the Christmas tree, and they’re flocking to his bank.

Gretchen Carlson: You are not calling for a boycott of any of these businesses….

Jeffress: Oh, not at all, not in any way! You know, there’s a Mexican restaurant you mentioned that was saying Happy Holidays, but our family still goes there every week…

Watch the latest video at video.foxnews.com

So it’s all about reassuring businesses. Honest! It’s all about making them feel nice and safe. He’s not advocating a boycott.

But he’s delighted to share as an example that little story of a bank losing customers because they took down a Christmas tree.

See, here's what mystifies me about this... Jeffress likes the idea of forcing other people and businesses to utter "Merry Christmas" and post signs saying "Merry Christmas" who are uncomfortable doing it. Do the people at "Grinch Alert" really imagine that businesses and retailers intimidated into towing Grinch Alert's line are acting in the spirit of the season?

And here's one more video, especially for the Reverend Mr. Jeffress:

Thanx to Juliebogen

Crossposted at Thoughtcrimes

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

The justification prader offered for just making up a response from me was that I was inconsistent. The natural assumption, since he was making stuff up about me in this thread, was that I'd been inconsistent here.

But step back for a moment. Think about what you're saying here. You're attempting to justify cowardice and dishonesty.

What does that say about the merits of your arguments?

The website doesn't have to say it's encouraging people not to patronize the businesses listed in the "naughty" section. Those who read it will know exactly what to do.
That's their INDIVIDUAL CHOICE. If I don't like the business practices of certain companies, I'm not going to purchase any goods or services through them. There's nothing wrong with that. It's my choice where my money goes.

You still haven't said what you think most businesses would conclude about the impact of being listed as "naughty" there. Care to take a shot at it?
Not really. Business PR people aren't as predictable as you. :D

Did private businesses have to change their policies, though? Who made them?

What are the cases where people lost their jobs for saying "Merry Christmas"?

Banned in the Phillipines? Are you referring to this (http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2010/12/philippines-merry-christmas-airports/133898/1)? Because, if the article tells true, it's not really a support of your case; it's something else.

You think a boycott is cowardly and dishonest?

The OP is about denying something is a boycott when it clearly is a boycott.

And I'll tell you the same thing I told paft - post specifically on the website where it says that businesses with 'naughty' entries should be subject to a boycott.

I'll wait...

Since there is almost nothing about Christmas that is actually Christian, I find the whole debate a little silly. If Christians want to include their mythology into the seasonal celebration, I don't have a problem with that. By the same token however, Christians need to lighten up a bit. If someone doesn't want to recognize the season as "Christmas" this does NOT constitute a "war on Christmas".

Its not being explicitly stated, that's the issue.

Name one use for the list other than voting with your dollar?

I am completely 100% behind anyone's right to make such a list, but I think its a coy lie to suggest its not for a "boycott". Own up to it.

I personally remember several years ago that it was no problem to say 'Merry Christmas'. For the past 10 years or so, that's changed.

You want me to name specific cases? Try using Google. I know of one specifically last year at either CVS or Rite-Aid. Other than that, I can't name specific cases.

Yes, that's the one I'm referring to and it's STILL ridiculous. How hard is it for someone to say 'No tip'?

Where do you get this 'voting with your dollar' garbage? I choose where I spend my money. Don't you?

I am completely 100% behind anyone's right to make such a list, but I think its a coy lie to suggest its not for a "boycott". Own up to it.

Nothing to own up to. It's a board for complaints/compliments about the businesses and holiday themed issues in general.

Did you read any of the complaints? Not all of them were focused on whether or not people were saying 'Merry Christmas'.

He wants to avoid it so much that he explicitly says no to it. Okay...

This.

Christmas is probably more your holiday (though I confess a large degree of ignorance when it comes to Wicca) than ours.

The assumption that wishing you a "merry christmas" is appropriate.

I haven't met any Christians who are upset that people don't bow down to them. In fact, I haven't seen too much bowing down before anyone recently, though I haven't spent much time in countries where bowing is traditional, e.g. in Japan. Where have you observed this situation?

Where do you get this 'voting with your dollar' garbage?

Garbage? The phrase 'voting with your dollar' is a common euphemism for boycotting. Its a bit broader in concept in that encompasses spending on things you do agree with and not spending on things you dont. Anyway, its certainly not garbage.

It's a board for complaints/compliments about the businesses and holiday themed issues in general.

Agreed. Now, as a consumer, I can take that information and choose to spend my money with people who are saying "Merry Xmas" and avoid businesses that are not doing so, ie boycotting them.

So, can you suggest any other use for the list? Why is admitting they are attempting to get people to patronize businesses that do say "Merry Xmas", and to avoid ones that don't, such an offensive admission?

In what way has it changed, though? is my point. There's a lot of statements claiming that it's a problem - and not just in a handful of isolated cases, because come on, you're always going to have people being jerks over one thing or another - but I'm questioning that.

It's on you to support your point, though. If you're not aware of actual cases or at least have an idea of the frequency with which these squabbles occur, how do you know it's actually a problem?

I'd imagine it's enough of a problem in the Phillipines that it's disrupting their business if they felt it necessary to make that policy. Correct me if I misinterpret, but it seems like you're trying to claim that that restriction has to do with an attempt at "political correctness," and, as the article says, it has absolutely nothing to do with that.

He just doesn't want the negative press of boycotting something at Christmas (boohoo), so he's claiming that its not a boycott list, but that is exactly what he is doing anyway. The primary way to use that list is to choose which businesses you want to patronize and which you don't, don't see why that is a big deal either way, but he should own up to it.

I would just own up to it and call it a boycott, if it were me.

The quality of service is a subjective measure. Consider a store where employees deliver prompt service but are pushy, or snobbish, or vulgar. Would it be out of line for a website to call attention to this for patrons who might prefer a different experience?
As for why would anyone care, why not? People get offended by the stupidest things. It's better for all concerned to provide this kind of public service, so that people can avoid places that are going to get them riled up.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be upset about. Free people organizing to distribute information that is publicly available for those who find that kind of information useful.

Freedom of speech and freedom of association working together to produce something you find uncomfortable.

What, oh what, shall we ever do?

In Target's case there's evidence to think that the money will be used to negatively affect homosexuals. that someone fails to say 'merry christmas' does not constitute evidence that they'll use the proceeds of their business to fund causes or politicians working to impede Christianity.

I'm not aware of every single case, but I've heard of cases being reported since 2007. The media doesn't report every single one, and the pharmacy one I told you about was local to NY state.

The issue in the Philippines technically is a political correctness issue and apparently, people can't tell the difference between a child saying the phrase and an adult. And before you say anything, yes, I read the part about bribes. Again, it's not that hard for someone to say they can't accept tips.

I choose where I spend my money. Don't you?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I may even use such a list to choose, but I'll admit that is what I am doing. The ones making the list should just admit it, but they don't want the bad press of boycotting stuff at XMAS.

Did you read any of the complaints

No. It doesn't matter, its still a list to use to steer consumers towards or away certain businesses.

I think claiming that an attempt to inspire a boycott is not, in fact, a boycott is cowardly and dishonest.

I also think that making up answers from somebody rather than addressing what they've actually said is also cowardly and dishonest.

Strawmen are cowardly and dishonest.

Anything unclear about this?

Publicly shaming people as a way to get them to pretend to celebrate a holiday that they may not be comfortable with? That is petty and sad.

So you've shifted from denying that it's an attempt at a boycott to defending the boycott.

And now you're claiming that you can't predict a businesses reaction to the prospect of bad publicity at Christmastime.

It's always fascinating to watch people feign dumbness rather than concede a point.

Oh, it's definitely that too.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Page 8 of 19

You're a Mean One, Grinch Alert

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject