You're a Mean One, Grinch Alert

[paft.livejournal.com]

Robert Jeffress:

Well, you know every year people bemoan the War on Christmas and I thought, “Let’s do something positive about it,” so we created this website, Grinchalert.com, it allows people to go on our website and, uh, if they’ve encountered a business that shuns Christmas they can talk about it and put that business on the naughty list but if they find a business that celebrates Christmas, they can put that business on the nice list. It’s just a fun way to say to businesses and organizations, “You don’t have to bow to political correctness. It’s okay to say, “Merry Christmas…”

John Roberts: What if businesses who are on the naughty list lose customers?... Would it be a good idea to affect people’s business at this season, which can be make or break for some people, and in this economic climate?

Jeffress: John, let me make it clear, we have never even hinted at a boycott…

"Never even hinted at a boycott?" Really? Here’s what Jeffress said on Fox:

Jeffress: One great example in the Dallas area, there was a bank that took down a Christmas tree because they said it would offend customers. Well, there was another bank that got put on our nice list, the Providence Bank, because they put up a nativity scene. The CEO told me yesterday that there were customers changing from the bank that removed the Christmas tree, and they’re flocking to his bank.

Gretchen Carlson: You are not calling for a boycott of any of these businesses….

Jeffress: Oh, not at all, not in any way! You know, there’s a Mexican restaurant you mentioned that was saying Happy Holidays, but our family still goes there every week…

Watch the latest video at video.foxnews.com

So it’s all about reassuring businesses. Honest! It’s all about making them feel nice and safe. He’s not advocating a boycott.

But he’s delighted to share as an example that little story of a bank losing customers because they took down a Christmas tree.

See, here's what mystifies me about this... Jeffress likes the idea of forcing other people and businesses to utter "Merry Christmas" and post signs saying "Merry Christmas" who are uncomfortable doing it. Do the people at "Grinch Alert" really imagine that businesses and retailers intimidated into towing Grinch Alert's line are acting in the spirit of the season?

And here's one more video, especially for the Reverend Mr. Jeffress:

Thanx to Juliebogen

Crossposted at Thoughtcrimes

Comments

[paft.livejournal.com]

"Apocalyptic?"

Where have I invoked an apocalypse?

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

Irony is that she's smiling in her icon.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Do you deny that Grinch Alert is a call for a boycott?

[paft.livejournal.com]

Because I tend to debate issues rather than resorting to personal attack and funny pictures. Debating issues is a bit demanding. Some people aren't used to it, and that frustrates them.

Your theory?

[paft.livejournal.com]

Is that boycott "ironic?"

[paft.livejournal.com]

jc: Yes, because I couldn't fathom that it would be worth posting a political comm about someone being less than honest and have that be the sum total of the issue at hand.

The above just reads like a rationalization for you ascribing opinions to me that I don't hold and never posted. Which seems to be your primary approach to "debate."

"Less than sincere?" Oh come now. The Reverend Mr. Jeffress is a liar and a bully, and he's got enough clout to hurt people in his area. That alone is worth some comment.

And no, his lack of sincerity was not my only point. I was also curious about what people like him imagine they're accomplishing, and said so. Does he really think that people and institutions who utter the words "Merry Christmas" because they're afraid of the economic impact on them if they don't are acting in the spirit of the season?

Re: you are trolling again I see....

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

How is it "dishonesty and cowardice" to call you out on your usual, partisan B.S.? I'm not the only one who does it, either, so stop playing the victim.

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

Hyperbole. Used here for irony because if this is indeed all about one man being less than honest, the net result of which will, on the outside of all probabilities would be that I'll hear a different holiday greeting at some stores during one particular season, well call me irresponsible, but it's a pretty small problem in the world full of much more considerable and actually impactful issues.

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

In practical terms, I don't see much of a difference in effect, so no.

Re: you are trolling again I see....

[paft.livejournal.com]

It's dishonest and cowardly to ascribe things to another person that they have not said, and to presume to answer for that person. And the fact that you're not the only one who does it doesn't make it any less dishonest and cowardly.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

jk_fabiani pointed out that the website doesn't specifically call for a boycott of the businesses mentioned. I think that answers your question.

Here's the introduction on the website:
Have you encountered a “Grinch” this Christmas season? Share your experiences here at GrinchAlert.com! Here, you can nominate businesses and organizations that shut-out expressions of Christmas in their interactions with the public via marketing, advertising and public relations. When companies use misplaced political correctness to halt the celebration of Christmas, they belong on the “Naughty List.”

We also want to know which companies are celebrating Christmas with excitement and meaning–especially those who keep Christ in Christmas where He belongs! Those companies and organizations will be placed on our “Nice List.” Help us preserve Christ this Christmas.

Do you see anything there that instructs people to NOT patronize businesses on the 'Naughty' list?

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

"And no, his lack of sincerity was not my only point. I was also curious about what people like him imagine they're accomplishing, and said so."

Is this really so complicated? He's being an advocate for changing a policy he doesn't like. To you and me, it seems like a lot of work for what seems to be more of a symbolic goal. To him, clearly it's a worthwhile endeavor. If you want more answers than that, you'll have to ask him directly.

Anyone who succeeds at being an advocate is going to make someone else unhappy, however.

Re: you are trolling again I see....

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

You can answer for yourself all you like. I'm not posting for you.

You can call it whatever you like, but you are being inconsistent. First you attack the website and the group who started it, then you attack the general idea that people are allowed to pick and choose where they spend their money. So who is your actual target in this whole issue?

[paft.livejournal.com]

It's not a matter of it being "complicated." It's a matter of what it reveals about his -- and some other Christians' -- notion of devoutness, or the Christmas season. They plainly like the idea of forcing nonChristians into certain rote recitations or gestures of faith.

That those rote recitations are done, not from genuine religious feeling, but from fear of being punished if they don't, seems to make little difference to them.

I should think that truly religious people would be repulsed by this. It's essentially forcing people to blaspheme, to pray, not to God, but to the hefty stick being held over their head if they don't.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

Re: you are trolling again I see....

[paft.livejournal.com]

No, I've not been inconsistent in the least. I've not "attacked the general idea that people are allowed to pick and choose where they spend their money." I've denounced someone instituting a boycott in an attempt to intimidate businesses for something so petty and stupid as the demand that EVERYONE -- Christian or nonChristian -- say "Merry Christmas" instead of the more inclusive "Happy Holidays."

I have no problem with boycotts as a tactic, but that does not mean I support every boycott. I disagree with this one. Strongly. And so I've said so. Quite consistently.

[paft.livejournal.com]

They don't have to instruct people not to patronize those businesses. The purpose of the Nice and Naught list is evident.

[paft.livejournal.com]

jc: Hyperbole

Which you have ascribed to me.

hc: Used here for irony...

Used here because ascribing it to me makes it easier to paint my arguments as irrational, and therefore easier than actually addressing what I've said.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

'You are going to compare your birthday to Christ's and say everyone should wish everybody a Happy Mrbogey day??'

Now where the hell did you get that one from?

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

What.

[onefatmusicnerd.livejournal.com]

Clearly, they are Papists!

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

I was referring to my own use of hyperbole in using the term 'apocalyptic' for the sake of irony.

Oy.

[onefatmusicnerd.livejournal.com]

I am sorry, my pilgrim ancestors came to America to get away from these fake holidays... Christmas was an anti-Christian pagan revelry then, and it still is today...

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

After studied this a little bit (but admittedly not too closely) I'm inclined to conclude that paft is no better no worse than some people on the right wing side that I've had exchanges with, such as mrbogie or reality_hammer for instance. (to mark two obvious names that take any opportunity to snark at her personally, even when she hasn't responded to or posted anything.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Yes. I know. And you were framing my argument in hyperbolic terms that I have not used.

For the reasons I've already posted.