(no subject)

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

In line with sandwichwarrior's recent post, drive-by scans aren't the only thing to worry about.

The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway — and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.

So, all of you who claim that the innocent have nothing to hide, why don't you call up the gov't and volunteer to have GPS devices added to your car, just in case? It would certainly save them the hassle of doing it in the future without your knowledge.

Comments

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

OMG TEHR COMIN 2 GIT ME BLAK HELIKOPTURZ FEMA DETH KAMPS!!

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Is this happening or not?

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

"...sneak onto your property in the middle of the night..."

They'll have to pull the paintball gun from my cold, dead fingers.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-january-19-2009/final-message-from-the-white-house

[chron-job.livejournal.com]

Of a similar vein...

Did you know that as of 2007, all new car manufactures are required to include the BlueTooth Tire Pressure monitor system?

For those who don't know what Bluetooth is... its essentially like wireless USB.

So, each of your tires has a little transceiver that talks to the mother ship in the car's main body, updating it with pressure info. This is useful for increasing fuel economy by making sure tires are optimally inflated.

But, there is an unintended effect.

Bluetooth, like any networking protocol, depends on two way communication, and as such, needs unique identifiers between the talking entities. You don't want your car being confused by the transmissions from tires of other cars, after all!

The upshot of all this is, I can erect a cheap and tiny bluetooth receiver at a busy intersection, and get a record of all the cars that went by. I can erect several such receivers in several places around town, and I can start to data mine for patterns. If I ever get a name to attach with my data (say, you use a discount card at my shop) I can now record and track you as you move about the city... exchanging my data with others to build super-databases, making very educated guesses at what you buy, and what you do with your spare time.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

That only scratches the surface of the issues with Bluetooth.

Oh if only that was the biggest problem

[tridus.livejournal.com]

That isn't the worst problem with these things, by far.

People can use them to remotely shut off your brakes. (http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2010/08/cars-hacked-through-wireless-tyre-sensors.ars)

No, really. The morons who came up with these things didn't stop to think that maybe hooking up a wireless interface to the car's central control system was a bad idea. Then an even bigger set of morons came along and made it a requirement to put them in every car.

If you ever wanted an example of government regulating without a f***ing clue of what it's doing, here it is.

(On top of that, they're annoying. A friend of mine had a tire blow not too long ago, so he put on a spare. He then had to listen to an hour of constant warnings about missing a tire AND low tire pressure every 8 seconds.)

[reality-hammer.livejournal.com]

Bluetooth is pretty short range, though. You can also encode it so that only designated sender-receiver pairs can communicate.

Similarly this is why in correctly set up environments everyone's bluetooth earbud will only talk to their own phone/pc/etc.

Whether vehicle communication systems are correctly set up remains to be seen.

I'd be more concerned with the ability of your car to "testify against you" by showing what you've been doing for the past N minutes in your car. As evidence in court it sounds like a good thing but what's to stop someone from querying your car as it passes by (or at emissions checks or at your local garage) to see where you've been?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

If the Federal government wastes its time tracking my life that consists of Uni, church, occasional trips shopping, buying groceries, and suchlike then I've nothing to worry about.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I guess it's good to know you'll never speak up about anything.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

I can't believe judges went along with that, but since the W Administration, they've been rolling over pretty regularly when it comes to the rights of the public Vs. whatever vague security demands made by the federal government. In this regard like others, Obama is just like W.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Since the W Administration?


.....

*Reads about the various Sedition Acts and histories of US censorship with full approval from the good guys.*

Surrrreeeee....Bush just happened to start that right out of a vacuum. His actions had no precedent of any sort in US history and the people here have never once gone for authoritarian solutions to crises with the full backing of the courts.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

for what it's worth, this is in only one appeals court district; other judges in other districts have quashed the government's attempts to do this.

I continue to be disappionted that the Obama Administration isn't doing more to roll back these kinds of assaults on our freedoms.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

It's not like there've never been Alien and Sedition Acts before......

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

I already have a GPS tracking system in both my cars. It is called OnStar. I also have GPS tracking system on each of my cell phones. All that law enforcements needs is a court order to have either GM or Verizon track me.

So they know where I go, whats the problem? Last time I looked it wasn't illegal to travel wherever you want to, except for restricted government facilities.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

GPS and a mobile 'phone....Blimey, you've just rolled over and allowed the powers that be buttfuck you then haven't you? Credit card too....oops: lube with that sir?

As you so rightly point out it is far too late to stop modern technology monitoring you if you live in the modern technological age.

Surely it's time for the Luddites to smash the looms. Either that or organise riots.

I'm quite happy with my seat for the show. My opera glasses seem to hand.
More popcorn and champagne please, garcon.

[jennem.livejournal.com]

This case raises some interesting questions. The police do not need, and have never needed, a warrant to follow someone or covertly observe their behaviors. Arguably, placing a GPS device on someone's car is substantively similar to following them whenever they go somewhere.

In my opinion, there are four relevant issues:

(1) Do you have a general (blanket) expectation of privacy with regards to your car?

(2) If the answer to (1) is no, do you have an expectation of privacy when you car is parked directly outside of your home?


(3) If the answer to (1) is no, do you have an expectation of privacy with regards to your car when it is parked anywhere except your home or residence?

(4) Do you have a general expectation of privacy with regards to your public movements, e.g., when you are traveling or driving on a public roadway.

Courts have continually distinguished between a car and your home (and concealed areas of your car versus non-concealed areas of your car). Presumably, the GPS tracker was placed somewhere on the outside of the car. All in all, the case raises some very interesting questions, partiularly with regards to how the privacy of one's home and curtilage should be viewed. (Would it be okay to place the device on a car that is parked in a mall parking garage, but not the driveway in front of someone's house? What about an apartment parking lot? The street in front of the house? Can I get a ticket for failure to maintain my Vehicle registration if the car is parked in my driveway? What about failure to properly display my license plate?) I'm not sure the issues are as cut and dry as you make them seem.

** Sorry for typos. I typed this up on my phone, and the interface is not cooperating.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I think they are fairly cut and dry, from my perspective. From those who favor gov't control and intervention, I can see how they might not be.

[ygrii-blop.livejournal.com]

LOL. Nobody cares. Americans used to have some fire in their bellies. Alas, no more.

The innocent have nothing to hide.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

Makes for a nice quote.

Problem is EVERYONE is guilty of some crime or another.

It's not like there's only a couple dozen laws on the books that are mostly common sense. There are literally tens of thousands of them at the federal level alone, in fact there are so many of them and new ones are being created so fast the government can't even keep a count of them all.

In this type of environment it becomes impossible for even an exceptionally well educated person to ensure they are not in volation of some law or another, the common man with no legal training is hopelessly outmatched and will be violating laws on average once or twice a week without having any clue he is doing so.

Re: The innocent have nothing to hide.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Indeed. I've jaywalked and probably violated use of public domain a time or two.

[stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com]

Why is it any less creepy to have the free market know everything about you than it is to have the government know everything about you? The free market is tracking your every movement as you are reading and posting to this community. I don't think the government cares.

Don't even get me started with Facebook......

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Free market is better due to WARRGARBL.

[chemchick.livejournal.com]

I find this troubling. The argument in the case was that the GPS did the same thing as if they were being trailed by police but when trailing someone they can be spotted. I think the dissenting judges opinion is pretty on the mark with regards to invasion of privacy by the government.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

This case is a bit different in that it is also violating private property, which I think counts fairly strongly in the illegal search category.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

But they said that it wasn't private property. And that it's not a search.

[readherring.livejournal.com]

They don't need to do that. they can already track you more accurately with your cell phone. I've aready been tracked after making a 911 call from my phone.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

That's a little different as that's something you agree to with that service.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

Isn't it already legal for law enforcement to follow you in public without a warrant? If you want to argue that this is bad (based on privacy concerns), it seems like you'd also have to demand that any law enforcement agents following you would also need a warrant; these two actions are the same in all the relevant ways.

Even if you argue that it shouldn't be legal for them to place the GPS tracker on a car while it is parked in the drive-way, it is easy enough for them to follow you to the store and place it on your car while you're getting groceries.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

these two actions are the same in all the relevant ways.

No, they aren't. There are several relevant ways in which they are different. One, they are modifying your private property. The act of attaching the device is already a violation of your rights. This is significantly different from passively observing you in a public area. Two, this is secret observation. It's more akin to wiretapping than to following you around the mall.

And that takes care of your second paragraph too.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

They might not care about me now, but what if I run for office in 25 years?

After all, do you know how Ralph Nader got the necessary funds for him to start his fight for public advocacy?

[reality-hammer.livejournal.com]

I think this is pretty clearly a violation of the Fourth and will be overturned by the SC.

[headhouse.livejournal.com]

Are you objecting to the technology or the government? Because, as other people have said, this is basically just another version of what the government has been legally able to do previously.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Read this thread (http://community.livejournal.com/talk_politics/674741.html?thread=50474165#t50474165) and get back to us.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

Is following someone unconstitutional? If police officer X follows a car by driving along in another car and watching the tracked car, is that okay, but if police officer X has a machine do it, that isn't okay?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

http://community.livejournal.com/talk_politics/674741.html?thread=50474165#t50474165