Voting with your wallet for clean energy?

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

So I was walking down the street and I see one of these guys with a stand on the sidewalk. He invites me to come look, and since I'm not in a rush (I just received a call the friend I was going to meet was running late) I decide to stop and listen, briefly, to what he's peddling.

Apparently, he works for Green Mountain Energy and he wants me to switch my energy provider.

Now, this isn't available to everyone in the US, only certain states (Texas, NY, Oregon, from what I can tell) and he wants me (and others) to switch to his electrical provider.

So I ask him, the bottom line, all important question:

What's the cost difference?

He shows me a chart with "traditional" electrical prices, which he says vary.
The traditional prices are usually a bit lower than their prices. He says that he wants his customers to be prepared to pay $8-15 more in the winter-time for clean energy.

That doesn't seem like so much. But I ask all of you:

What, if any, increase in cost would you be willing to pay for clean energy?

If the price for traditional energy is 10 cents/kWh and clean energy is 14 cents/kWh are you willing to pay that? What if it was 13? 12? 11? 10.5? Or are you unwilling to pay *any* extra for clean energy?

I kinda like the idea of this--people vote with their checkbook all the time. And this seems like a good idea to me. But, I admit, cost is a reasonable factor to consider. I may decide to switch my energy--I may not.

What about you?

Comments

[the-new-lemon.livejournal.com]

You should have asked him to justify his product's price difference.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

That would have been a good question. I didn't talk to him for *that* long. Just long enough to figure out his shpeel and to make sure they had a website I could refer to at my leisure.

Might you respond to my inquiries? What price diff, if any, would you pay for clean energy?

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

In Oregon, and I selected that option when I moved here. :) cost diff is minor.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Nice.

If you don't mind me asking, how'd you find out/make up your mind on the matter?

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

I have enough middle-class guilt to be a sucker for this sort of thing. The Wife is much more hard headed about it all: we reach accommodations, if that's the word. I always think of it as someone else's necessity eating into my pleasure: I doubt I'm alone in that. But those words: necessity and pleasure, define themselves when juxtaposed like that.

Bah; it's the excuse of a bad poet.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

I use so little energy I feel like I "did my part" and might not want to do more. (example: we have a small fridge, slightly larger than hotel size. We use no AC all summer long. We have no TV. All bulbs are CFLs etc.)

So as I sit here in 91 degree heat on a nice summers day I'm like "do more?" Really? I guess I'm bitter since I know so few people who take simple "turn it off don't use it" measures to save energy that I take. It just seems more direct to me. It's like people want to use less power and have nothing change. That's not totally possible.

And when you suffer alone you can get a little high an holy. Maybe I'm doing that now. It's hard for me to listen to people who leave their AC on FOR THEIR CATS... uggghhh. I'd better get some ice water.

Well, if someone can show me that it REALLY IS less carbon I'll do it.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

It's water/wind/solar power, so even if you use little energy, if it's coming from coal it's gonna be worse for the environment.

But good on you for being so energy savvy. I do what I can, but I don't like 91 degree heat....

That's the best motivation

[papasha-mueller.livejournal.com]

for the clean energy company to buy 'dirty energy', at 10c, put a 40% markup and sell it for 14c.
Less taxes and 0.01c to this stupid bloke for SAM.
Btw, do they need a business development director?

And if they're clever enough -

[papasha-mueller.livejournal.com]

They'd have both resale agreement with dirty-energy-co which would entitle them to 20% bulk discount, buying actually at 8c and -
tax exemption or other form of subsidy from the government for "greening'...

Actually, dollar is green too.

Re: That's the best motivation

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

If it wasn't blatantly illegal, it would kill both companies as soon as the word got around. It's really stupid and short-sighted-- I imagine it happens a lot.

Re: That's the best motivation

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

They do have a couple of postings on their website for jobs.
I don't think they would approve of your idea.

There are, despite my cynicism, still some people out there who operate according to principles (other than making money)

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

Outside of these areas, Green Mountain offers renewable energy certificates and carbon offset products to help reduce the environmental impact of everyday activities like electricity use, driving and flying.

I just lost a LOT of confidence in them. Carbon offsets area huge rip off and just a way of trying to make guilt go away. You can't plant trees to "cancel out" your air plane flights. The solution is not to fly.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

"Outside of these areas"

So I would imagine inside of those areas they have a better solution?

Also: you must realize that we have done lots of damage already, and lots of people will not stop their damaging ways. It's better to have people who do damage *AND* plant trees than people who merely do damage.

[cory-nickolatos.livejournal.com]

I don't pay bills at the moment, so it's hard to calculate. Remembering when I did pay bills, I'd probably pass... Even a little bit more to spend was too much when I was working semi-part time on minimum wage while going to school. I'd imagine most poor people would agree with me.

I'd probably agree to it if I had a healthy income with no kind of debts.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Well, for full disclosure, the guy wasn't standing on a street corner in a poor neighborhood. He was in a fairly affluent neighborhood in Manhattan where the residents routinely spend lots of money on shit they don't need.

So obviously for those who are scraping by and have 20 bucks in a saving account, yeah, cost is primary, but for lots and lots of folks, an extra $10 a month ain't gonna make a difference.

In NYC $10 doesn't even get you a movie ticket anymore.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

What, if any, increase in cost would you be willing to pay for clean energy?

Zero, assuming all things are equal. Given that "clean energy" also tends to be less reliable, I'm not going to pay a premium for a sub-par product.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

All things are NOT equal.

[mendaciloquent.livejournal.com]

I'd pay 10% to 15% more for something that was legitimately more sustainable (read: not a greenwashing scam).

Although I'd be more likely to simply invest a certain amount per-year in streamlining the energy profile of my house. Ecologically speaking, it's more reliable than paying someone else to conserve energy for me by producing it in an allegedly better way, and rather than costing more, it's much more likely to result in net savings in the long run.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

Ecologically speaking, it's more reliable than paying someone else to conserve energy for me by producing it in an allegedly better way, and rather than costing more, it's much more likely to result in net savings in the long run.

This is so much more succinct than what I was rambling on about. But YES.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

While I'm sure there are "greenwashing scams" out there, I'm unsure if you are accusing this particular group of doing so.

If so, can you substantiate that claim?

From what they told me, and what their website says (neither of which are unbiased sources, I am aware) they get their electricity from renewable sources such as wind/solar/hydro.

If I have been hoodwinked, I'd like to know. Or are you just putting that out there as a sort of caveat?

And again, as I said elsewhere, using less energy overall is also good. Making your house and home (and workplace if you own a business) more energy efficient is excellent; but whatever energy you *do* use needs to come from somewhere. I'm guessing you'd be willing to take a small hit on the cost, if the sources were environmentally friendly, yea?

[reality-hammer.livejournal.com]

Ohio allowed competition but there weren't any takers back when KwH was about 4.5 cents and hour. Even now at nearly 8 cents an hour there aren't any takers (at least not in this part of the state). Coal fired plants + in state coal fields means very cheap power.

One thing our city did was poll everyone to determine who wanted in on bulk purchases of electricity. That way our entire city can get in on cheaper prices.

Tangent: wells for water used to be very common around here. I'm wondering how profitable it would be to convert old wells to geothermal energy.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

"Ohio allowed competition"

Are you suggesting most states do not?

I was curious, if *YOU* would be willing to pay a small amount more for electricity that was produced not by coal/oil, but by wind/solar/hydro, as the latter sources are less environmentally damaging than the former.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

I'd be willing to pay another $20 a month if I could verify that my energy was coming from clean domestic sources.

Not only would it be worth it to know that I was polluting as little as possible, but I would also be investing in clean energy, supporting a commercially viable proof-of-concept that shows that CE can work, and I'd know that the money was staying in-country instead of going to, say, the bloody Saudis.

Of course, if they could get it to within a few dollars, or dead even, I daresay most people would switch if they could.

moar like you!

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

I like your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. =)

[dwer.livejournal.com]

I'd pay a 10% increase. That would max out at about $20 a month for me. I already pay for carbon offsets, which isn't ideal, but I do feel better about it. But like squidboi I'd want a verifiable guarantee.

[root-fu.livejournal.com]

Now isn't a good time to switch to alt energy. Wait, within a few years prices could drop enormously, likewise cost effectiveness and performance could dramatically improve.

Markets like photo-voltaic panels continue to grow at good rates, the individual consumer support isn't really required. Also, there are a number of potential breakthroughs that could enormously revolutionize the game.

So, better to wait.

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

early adoption does have drawbacks, but the market needs SOME people to invest in the beginning or it never gets off the ground.