(no subject)

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

If you haven't heard, New York was under attack by an idiot. As opposed to past idiots, this idiot happens to not only be brown and born in Pakistan, but is also an American citizen. This last bit introduces hoops that our proud lawmakers must jump through to maintain their integrity on terrorism:

“Obviously that would be a serious mistake until all the information is gathered,” John McCain said when asked whether the suspect, Faisal Shahzad, should have been Mirandized.

“What I was talking about was that we don’t have to Mirandize someone immediately. You don’t – before you charge them, there’s time that elapses,” McCain later clarified to POLITICO.

“I hope that [Attorney General Eric] Holder did discuss this with the intelligence community. If they believe they got enough from him, how much more should they get? Did they Mirandize him? I know he’s an American citizen but still,” Peter King (R-NY) told POLITICO.

Joe Lieberman has another idea: "I think it’s time for us to look at whether we want to amend that law to apply it to American citizens who choose to become affiliated with foreign terrorist organizations, whether they should not also be deprived automatically of their citizenship, and therefore be deprived of rights that come with that citizenship when they are apprehended and charged with a terrorist act."

Apparently he thinks domestic terrorist organizations should get a free pass.

So, aren't these the guys who keep harping on restricting the amount of power the federal government has over its citizens? They've previously tried to claim these powers only over unlawful combatants, but if they can invent a charge that lets them revoke someone's citizenship at the drop of a hat... the slope these men walk along is mighty slippery.

Comments

You are right.

[zebra24.livejournal.com]

1) Terrorist isn't an idiot, just unlucky.
2) There shouldn't be any persons deprived of their rights, no matter citizenship or not.
3) Question is how he got his citizenship, was it legal or not.

I agree with you: Reps and Dems too often just plays same game.

But I still think that Dems still worse than Reps in this matter.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

When we start talking about simply depriving people of their citizenship for doing things we don't like, people should get worried. Suddenly we can just do anything to them.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Why do Republicans hate our justice system?

[merig00.livejournal.com]

actually State Department has a right to strip citizenship from a naturalized citizen which is kinda fucked up.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Seems like it's not only republicans

[merig00.livejournal.com]

McCain doesn't know what to say or do anymore to try to win that election in November.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

I figured this was going to be posted eventually.

I take some joy in that a lot of the usuals had to erase their entire planned screed on Tea Party protesters being ultimately responsible for it.

The guy just got naturalized last year. It's not as if we're talking just stripping people of their citizenship at whim. I have heard that removal of citizenship of naturalized Americans isn't a new concept.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

That sums it up perfectly.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

It's still bad precedent -- and implies that naturalized citizens aren't *really* citizens since this implies we take their rights away BEFORE a trial and BEFORE a conviction.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

For once we agree on something.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

I don't even think Romans removed citizenship (cf. Paul of Tarsus and how horrified a Roman centurion was when discovered that he was about to flog a full citizen of the Empire-- a crime that carried severe punishments).

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

I thought that required a trial and conviction; This implies those rights be removed *before that* which would violate due process...

[merig00.livejournal.com]

I don't remember the requirements. And I think it was done like twice in the history of USA.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

http://www.newcitizen.us/losing.html

Convicted For An Act Of Treason Against The United States (note the word "Convicted")

Holding A Policy Level Position In A Foreign Country

Serving In Your Native Country’s Armed Forces If That Country Is Engaged In Hostilities Or At War With The United States

Serving In Your Native Country’s Armed Forces As An Officer Or A Non-Commissioned Officer

Lying To The USCIS During The Naturalization Process

Refusal To Testify Before Congress About Your Subversive Activities

Voluntarily Losing Your US Citizenship (Renunciation)

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

There's a rather long tradition of rulings that rights belong to human beings, and correctly so. The Constitution refers as broadly as possible, the application of rights to persons.

That so many seem to be chomping at the bit to make it mean that they apply not simply just to citizens as they once held, but now only to a designated subset of citizens shows once again how cheap politicians really estimate human liberties and their protections to be worth.

[prader.livejournal.com]

I agree with you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the terrorist- but this sets a dangerous precedent that I'd gladly keep out of the hands of politicians/bureaucrat who are on "my side", if it means keeping it out of the hands of those who aren't.

Re: You are right.

[frodomyhero.livejournal.com]

In which matter?

[frodomyhero.livejournal.com]

Because they are bad losers. They want a one party system. They said that when they were in control of Congress. They are not into a democracy. Just money and power to control the government.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

*suspected terrorist

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

Isn't Miranda supposed to happen before you're arrested? Not before charged?

[prader.livejournal.com]

Unless he's a "Teabagger." Got it.

[prader.livejournal.com]

Before or kind of during arrest. So far as I know: yes. Keeping in mind that I'm no legal scholar, it's a no brainer in my mind that the guy should have been Mirandized if he's a U.S. citizen. Regardless of how that citizenship came about.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

It's not as if we're talking just stripping people of their citizenship at whim. I have heard that removal of citizenship of naturalized Americans isn't a new concept.

After conviction in a court, and due process, and all those quaint ideas that Republicans don't believe in anymore.

They can't just remove his citizenship because they think he committed a crime.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

It's only required to be done before the suspect is questioned. There's nothing that says it has to be done at arrest as long as the arresting officers don't ask the suspect any questions whose answers they expect to be able to use in court. That being said, it's a good idea to do it right off the bat. First off, it means it's done. Second, it means if the suspect blurts out a confession while being transported it's able to be used.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

"I think it’s time for us to look at whether we want to amend that law to apply it to American citizens who choose to become affiliated with foreign terrorist organizations, whether they should not also be deprived automatically of their citizenship, and therefore be deprived of rights that come with that citizenship when they are apprehended and charged with a terrorist act."

Yes, let's just get rid of due process. To hell with the trial. Let's deprive US citizens (and that appears to include natural born citizens in addition to naturalized) just on the say so of the cops.

Apparently he thinks domestic terrorist organizations should get a free pass.

Silly, domestic terrorists never threatened Israel.