A nuclear Middle Eastern theocracy is coming:

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/a-hostile-takeover-of-zionism/article1302318/

Somehow I expect that the Right in the United States, a good portion of which salivates at the prospect of a nuclear holocaust, will be absolutely mum if and when Israel becomes a Middle Eastern theocracy with real nuclear weapons, which Iran is not anywhere near at present.

I just can see that......

Comments

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Er....Israel has a higher percentage of Fundamentalists than any Arab state does. And unlike the Arab states, which are all dictatorships that have had long practice at stifling their Fundies, Israel is too democratic to do what they need to do to stop the Fundies.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

the Right in the United States, a good portion of which salivates at the prospect of a nuclear holocaust

I'm sure you're aware that with that statement, you are deliberately (and probably unjustifiably) insulting a lot of people in order to stir controversy. There is one particular term used to summarize such debate methods, and I'm sure you know it too.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I did not say the entire Right did. The John Hagee Right that views the annihilation of the Middle East in nuclear fire as necessary for the Redemption of the World very much does want to see a nuclear war.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

I did not say the entire Right did.

Just 'a good portion'.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Then you should re-define 'a good portion'. In my impression that means a very large part of the Right, which in my observation is not correct. You know that and because you do, you're aiming to create artificial controversy. So what was the term?

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

Israel has had nuclear capabilities for years. They've had the ability to deliver those weapons by land, sea and air for years. I don't know what you mean by "real" nuclear weapons but they're as real as it gets already.

As for "theocracy". If anything, Israel is moving more towards a secular society every day. The Jewish population isn't growing nearly as fast as the non-Jewish population and barring some sort of ethnic cleansing (either by killings as some fringe kooks advocate or forced relocation) they're not going to be able to accomplish any sort of religiously homogeneous population. There's also the fact that most Israelis aren't religious nuts, just nationalists.

I'm no fan of most of what Israel has been doing but suggesting that they're a hair's breadth away from being a theocracy with nuclear weapons is absurd.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

As I said below, the Israeli Religious Right is much more powerful and influential than its Christian counterpart. When the US Religious Right starts throwing acid in gays' faces and has organized paramilitaries that enforce Pentecostal doctrine, we'll talk.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

But the religious nuts in Israel are only a threat to their fellow Israelis. Some of the more extreme religionists don't even believe in Zionism or support there being an Israeli state. They're not likely to launch nuclear Armageddon against their neighbors. As someone else said, Jews are extremely opposed to any sort of coerced conversion. As Israel becomes a less Jewish and more diverse nation, the religious conservatives can only lose power. Our nation, on the other hand, becomes more religious as demographic shifts take place.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

The fallacy here is assuming a religious Jew is on par in terms of threat as a religious Muslim. The tenets of faith are quite different. Jews seem to be a bit put off with the idea of expansion and domination. Muslims seem to see it as a religious obligation.

So yea, religious Jew is going to raise less of an eyebrow than a religious Muslim when it comes to weaponry.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Er.....they are?

Then did I miss something in how all the settlers in the West Bank are Charedim who feel that the West Bank is theirs by divine Right?

And why is Iran going to nuke the Al-Asqa Masjid? One of the three most sacred sites in Islam and one of the Muslim world's only two theocracies is going to nuke it for what purpose, exactly? If we take religion at its word, Iran as a Messianic Muslim state is not going to nuke the third holiest city to practicing Muslims.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

You might feel differently about the threat level if you were gay or a woman in "provocative" attire riding the wrong bus.

[majortom-thecat.livejournal.com]

You said: "The Jewish population isn't growing nearly as fast as the non-Jewish population..."

I didn't get that impression from reading the article linked in the OP, or this one (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4956). Where did you get your data?

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

I didn't read the whole article you posted, or the one linked in the OP. That being said, from reading part of what you linked to, that article is talking about an upswing in haredim population, not Jews as a whole. As Jews start to comprise a smaller and smaller part of the Israeli population, the ultra-Orthodox will likely see their numbers swell as the remaining Jews begin to fear an Arab onslaught. Jews in Israel are poised to become a minority in their own country. All demographic studies show that.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Let me know when Israel stops being the regions leading producer and consumer of pornography and we'll talk.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Is that why the Israeli morality squads are throwing acid in girls' faces then? You let me know when the US Christian Right gets that kind of power.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Part of the government, are they? Financed by tax dollars and affiliated with the state security, are they? Oh, what? They're not? They are a bunch of vigilantes who are confined to their small enclaves? Yeah, tell you what when the Haradim get the power to regulate topless bathing on public beaches and I'll begin to consider them the equal of the Christian Right. The fact that a few of their fanatics are throwing acid or otherwise assaulting people is a demonstration of weakness, not strength.

[dudeuhman.livejournal.com]

what's the point of posting something as broad and claim-filled as this with no solid evidence to support it?

[majortom-thecat.livejournal.com]

Did you read the article that Underlankers linked to in the OP? What's your take on it?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I've been listening to John Hagee quite often. If that man's not for nuclear war then Sarah Palin's a man.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

The right-wing in this country seems to be fine with whatever Israel does because they need Israel to stick around long enough for its inhabitants to be murdered/forcefully converted by Jesus. Considering their love for nuclear weapons, I'm sure they're fine with Israel having them if for no other reason then to enforce that whole only Jesus can kill the Jews nonsense.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

I am compelled to agree with you on this.