Excellent start...

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

... And now a very strong second-phase:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/03/outcry-after-republicans-vote-to-dismantle-independent-ethics-body

This seems to make all investigations into ethics in US politics subject to the, er, um, erm... whims of the GOP. Thankfully the GOP is spotlessly and scrupulously moral, and so would never abuse any advantage which clever and strategic manoeuvring and great good fortune has given it. (Ahem.)

It is becoming increasingly obvious that this was the election the Dems had to win. The loss is going to resonate down through the decades. POTUS, SCOTUS, and Congress working together can now change the ground rules. The winners can be as radically capitalist or nationalist as they like. (And now, given this vote, as kleptocratic as they wish, too.) And the GOP now can change the starting conditions to skew the polity in a shape more pleasing to themselves.

My questions are:

Have the Democrats actually understood the depth of their loss?

How do the Democrats think they can prevent or obfuscate the sort of structural changes which the GOP can now enact?

And after the changes have been made, does the panel think that the Democrats will ever be in a position to hold all three branches of the executive ever again (or at least for the next two decades) to enable it to redress this and repair the damage done by this rout?

Comments

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

This is a nothing burger. The ethics body wasn't dismantled, it was reorganized and put under the Ethics committee.

In the last 8 years, years in which Rep. Chaka Fattah was convicted of racketeering, Rick Renzi, was convicted on 17 counts of wire fraud; Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., pled guilty to wire and mail fraud and Rep. Trey Radel tried to buy cocaine from an undercover cop, the Office of Congressional Ethics had exactly nothing to do with addressing these abuses. It was the FBI, the DOJ and local law enforcement who brought these people to justice. Truly independent entities designed to be independent and even handed. In fact, the Department of Justice prosecuted Rep. Michael Grimm for tax evasion despite the refusal of the (independent!) Office of Congressional Ethics to look into the matter when the DOJ asked them to.

Have the Democrats actually understood the depth of their loss?

The Democrats actually think they won. They are delusional.

How do the Democrats think they can prevent or obfuscate the sort of structural changes which the GOP can now enact?


The same way the Republicans attempted to derail everything Obama wanted to do. They need to use our system of government, that gives a great deal of power to the minority, if they are willing to use it. Too bad the Democrats spent the last 10 years trying to weaponize the Executive Branch to do end runs around the Legislature. If they want to truly be successful at this, they need to start winning more elections at state and local levels. That seems unlikely, given the DNC's commitment to an ideology that is deeply unpopular with most Americans when translated from the General election down to specific places. So, we shall see.

And after the changes have been made, does the panel think that the Democrats will ever be in a position to hold all three branches of the executive ever again (or at least for the next two decades) to enable it to redress this and repair the damage done by this rout?


LOL. Damage is, of course, in the eye of the beholder. But the idea that any party will have some kind of ontological lock on power is as unrealistic in 2017 as it was in 2008 when it was assumed that the GOP was moribund and soon to be swept away by a demographic tidal wave that would ensure Democratic control for 1000 years. Our system tends to punish overreach by any party pretty quickly.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

The Ethics committee is part of Congress. Members of the Congress will be controlling the ethics of Congress, how does that compute? Who controls the controllers if they're part of those who are supposed to be controlled?

It's like asking the banks to assess their flaws in the wake of the banking collapse, and hold those responsible accountable. Unsurprisingly, what we've seen in result was the banks handing out huge bonuses to their employees for a work well done. What do you expect this Ethics committee to achieve in terms of upholding ethics?

It's a power grab. US democracy will suffer immensely as a result of the current configuration in Congress.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

The Ethics Committee was always a part of Congress. By definition. Five Democrats, five Republicans appointed every 2 years by the same system that seats people on the Appropriations Committee or the Judiciary Committee . The Office that was just "eliminated" worked independently for the Ethics Committee. As I noted above, it did almost nothing and was responsible for no real "ethics enforcement" beyond perfunctory wrist slapping for members who forgot to cross some "T's" or dot some "I's" on disclosure forms. Real enforcement of "ethics" has always rested with the DOJ and the FBI, or the local police in the case of things like hookers and blow. They are truly independent, at least as much as anything is independent in the world of politics.

It is not a power grab. A power grab is the Executive promising to make law using "a phone and a pen" and doing away with the nuisance of dealing with the Legislature and passing actual laws all together.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Or calling a storm of tweets and the occasional private phone call "policy".

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

> Our system tends to punish overreach by any party pretty quickly

It suffices for this principle to fail just once. Then things get irreversible. I live in East Europe, believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Like we don't know it? Our entire system was predicated on the "if" from the very beginning.

What sort of government have you given us, Mr. Franklin?

A republic. If you can keep it.


Freedom is only one generation away from extinction.--Ronald Reagan.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

And how does that make you feel?

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Sober. But I am probably an outlier.

How should it make anyone feel? Would you really want a system so powerful and encompassing that it can never become extinct? Sounds like a Thousand Year Riech to me.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Are you saying your current system is *GASP* not perfect!?

That's so un-American!

[garote]

Actually it's about as American as they come. We love to break thing into factions and them set them against each other, and tinker with the rules of engagement to keep the conflict going, and call it "progress".

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Good for you (?)

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Spoken like someone who knows exactly nothing about America.

We are always worried that our system is deeply flawed, corrupted and failing. We also profoundly disagree about exactly how it is flawed, corrupt and failing. And we really, really disagree on what to do about the flaws, corruption and failure.

What we do agree on is that, despite our flaws, we are better than you people.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Firstly, I know more about America than you know about "us people" (whatever you mean by that).

And secondly, methinks I stepped on a toe?

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

I posted on the same subject without noticing you had already posted this, so I opted for removing my post and adding my commentary here instead. I hope you don't mind. So here's what I had to say.

Gutting Ethics? Now THAT's Republican!

That's just a taste of what is to come from now on. And so the stage is set for an administration and a Congress riddled with corruption, ethical violations, and self-dealing. These are going to be 4 beautiful years indeed.

Effective from Jan 20, government will be officially on sale to the highest bidder. The next four years will make the Teapot Dome Scandal and the Nixon White House look like choir boys. Constitutional crisis does not begin to do justice to the harm that is about to befall the US nation.

Oh, but doubtless, this is going to help make America great again.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

The next four years will be about as corrupt as the last four, or the four before that or whatever metric you might want to use. And the perpetrators will be, as they always are, a mixture of Republicans and Democrats. Corruption is, and always has been, a bipartisan affair. The jailbirds I referenced above were two Dems and two Republicans.

Money flows to power, not to party. If you really want to reduce corruption, do more to fragment and distribute power widely, don't try to concentrate power in the Federal Government.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Corruption has been, up to now, bi-partisan-ish.

Would you care to bet after this that the stats will show a similar balance?

I suspect that we're going to find the Republicans return to their blameless and unimpeachable good behaviour of the '50's, but those awful Democrats get their criminal corruption exposed for what it is.

The proof will be in the pudding, so we have to wait for the stats.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

You seem to think that the FBI is suddenly going to be an arm of the GOP? Or that controlling a small majority in the Senate will enable to the GOP to prosecute Democrats exclusively by Congressional Committee?

That isn't how it works. Corruption flows to power. If the GOP has most of the power, corruption will flow to the GOP. If you lack power, you can leverage the media or the judiciary to attack corruption and expose it, weakening those in power. Then corruption flows to you. And the cycle continues.

Remember the 1950's were a time when Democrats dominated the House of Representatives. When the Gingrich Revolution swept into power in the 1990s there hadn't been a GOP Speaker in 40 years. Check out the list of federal scandals on wikipedia. It is always and forever a bipartisan problem.

As long as there is power, there will be corruption.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

No, I don't for one moment suppose the FBI will suddenly become an arm of the GOP.

But I'll wager ten bucks that the issue of corruption becomes less bipartisan after this decision; incrementally, perhaps, but we will just look at the figures and conclude that despite previous associations with power... etc and etc... the Dems are just more corrupt.

You've already seen what complacency in both politics in general, and the structure of various political systems' checks and balances, have brought lots of us to. It can happen in America too. In fact, from the outside, it looks like it has already begun. (We are no better, BTW. Running around like headless chickens without a plan to execute the unexpected majority decision to defenestrate us without anyone holding a sheet beneath the window.)

[garote]

Is it fair to say that your current thinking is, "despite previous associations with power, the Republicans are just more corrupt"?

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

No. I ws thinking that even with the best of intentions, unconscious bias exists in us all, and changing the contingency of the ethics body would mean that such unconscious biases would produce statistical deviations.

But it's no longer even a debatable point as latest news here indicates the Republicans have rolled it back. Apparently (according to some reports anyway) Trump made them. Blimey!

There's just no telling with this lad. This may yet be the most amusing Presidency ever.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

Or maybe abolish the two-party system (if only).

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

I didn't mean for you to delete yours, as mine had a slightly different angle.

Even so, these are interesting times.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

No worries, one post on this topic is enough for the day, and yours was better. Mine didn't have comments yet, so no biggie.

[adam baum (from livejournal.com)]

If I recall, it would have been John McCain elected if not Obama. Check his legacy over the past 8 years. http://getrightorgetout.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-legacy-of-john-mccain.html (http://getrightorgetout.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-legacy-of-john-mccain.html)

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Er...

I didn't mention Obama. This was about the 2016 election, which the Dems lost. Though I suppose the loss can be attributed to Obama's victory in 2008... excepting he won a second term.