Wow. So French promises are worth their weight in down I see....

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8241543.stm

Love this bit in particular:

"In 1999... we said that Turkey is a candidate state destined to join the union on the basis of the same criteria as apply to other candidate states. So it's the credibility of the EU [at stake]," Mr Ahtisaari said.

Europe, you never cease to amuse me.

So I''ll ask again....what was the difference between 1999 and 2009? Turkey has only improved in a decade, so why the resistance beyond racism?

Comments

[thies.livejournal.com]

Turkey was slow to fulfill the obligations for a new member under the Copenhagen criteria and is now temporarily fucked while the treaty of Lisbon is stalled which goes in hand with a stop for admitting new members.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Oh, bullshit. Europe's moved the bar every time the Turks meet it. Turkey is more liberal on linguistic policy than Sarkostan, while it's more secular than the entirety of the Scandinavian states. So....why, may I ask, do we include Cyprus, Malta, Greece, and Romania in the EU but not the Turks? Oh, that's right, their Muslims. And European culture is destroyed if more followers of a des-oh, wait, it's already been Christianized.

[thies.livejournal.com]

oh, bullshit? ignorance must be bliss.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

No, it has moved repeatedly. As the guy pointed out, in 1999 they were perfectly hallal. Now they're not. Because Europe is a bunch of whiny pussy bitches that fear Islam despite it existing on the continent in relative peace for millennia (because we all know the peaceful history of Christian sects co-existing).

The USA doesn't even take stuff this far with fear of Latinos.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

while it's more secular than the entirety of the Scandinavian states.

hahahaha. oh well, that was funny. Have you even been to Turkey and Scandinavia? Five minutes in either part of the world would cure you from your delusions.

Also, there is a convenient lack of focus on the Kurdish people in these posts.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

Personal experience is priceless. Its sad that too many people ignore it and rely entirely on written word.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

De jure theocracy is not the same thing as de facto, but explain to me how a state with both a state religion and a monarch as head of its church is less secular than Turkey, where Islam is effectively outlawed. Let's hear this....

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

"it's more secular than the entirety of the Scandinavian states"

Proof required.

Throwing random words around must be amusing, isnt it?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Turks have no state religion. Aside from Sweden, all Northern European kings are head of state churches. Said churches protected by blasphemy laws and other such protections that seem to apply to one bastardized form of Judaism but not another. Hence, by virtue of having no state religion and ruthlessly repressing any stirrings from Islam, Turkey is automatically more secular than say, Norway with its state Lutheranism and king as head of church.

[mighty-carrot.livejournal.com]

This is such an interesting debate. I really think Turkey should be in the EU because of numerous advantages, such as its geopolitical location. The thing is, for a country to enter in the EU it has to follow a number of criterion (democracy, freedom, free speech, etc), which is totally acceptable. One of the most important reasons of why it hasn't entered is because of certain country's stances regarding Turkey's power once in the organization. If I'm not mistaken, Turkey would be the second most populous country in the EU (only behind Germany) and, as such, it would have more representatives in the EU Parliament and other European institutions, a thing France would never accept because it would shift the power over to Turkey and it could, potentially lose the leverage it has over the organization.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Not to mention that France itself is less liberal on one such criteria than Turkey.....ironically, given that France is more democratic overall than Turkey is.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Criterion.

[mcpreacher.livejournal.com]

i'm starting to feel like i should go from "not knowing shit about modern day turkey" to "knowing shit about modern day turkey"

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

It's a semi-fascist secular state that for all that entails is more democratic in a sense than France or Italy.

[prock.livejournal.com]

Ax to grind much?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

No, but Turkish laws as regards say, Kurdish, are more liberal than French laws regarding, say...Breton or Basque.

[mrsilence.livejournal.com]

According to your subjective opinion, with all due respect.

I doubt the French or Italians, who are, after all, the ones (amongst others) who get to decide who else can join the EU, agree with you on that.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

Just read up about it on your own and travel or talk to people who've traveled. Don't get your knowledge from these posts.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

Seconded.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

So I''ll ask again....what was the difference between 1999 and 2009?

Good question. So please answer in reference to the quote cited. In what way is Turkey's candidature been treated different to others?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

It's large, majority-Muslim, and Germany's afraid Turkey in the EU might well ask if it isn't time for those second and third-generation Turks to be accepted as full German citizens.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

That doesn't tell how its candidacy to join the EU has been treated differently to others.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

Wow, now you've moved on to the Turkish cause.
Curious.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

I sense a new obsession in your list :-)

I recommend that you get away from the books and travel a little. Then maybe you'd get your answers.

[peamasii.livejournal.com]

Wow, this pops up again. So, you want:

* an ass-backwards traditionalist culture grounded in Islam
* with a repressive and corrupt government
* with disastruos human rights records
* with a very large population comprised of clans and tribes hating each other
* with a diaspora of 10+ million citizens already living at the expense of Western states, often not well integrated, often committing crimes or injustices

...to be fully included in the fucking EU! Why do you hate the EU so much????