One week paid vacation per year. Basic worker right or outrageous govt regulation?

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

This will illuminate some very clear battle lines, in, what is sadly, the only war. The class war.

I want to share my support about something. Alan Grayson, (D-FL) has introduced a bill to the house of reps that, we all know, will not pass (both cause he is a Dem in the house, but also cause it's a bill that megacorps would fight against, if it actually had a snowballs chance in hell). But I would like it to. The bill I speak of, would mandate, all big employers to give their full-time workers, one week of paid vacation a year.

This is a very basic standard of employment, IMO. The last job I had that gave benefits, gave two weeks vacation, with some personal+sick days too. It did not seem overly generous and as I understand it, such basic requirements are frequently met in more civilized countries than the US.

So here I put this out there, and go ahead and try to sway me, if you disagree with me. But if you do, offer something more substantial than "Govt shouldn't regulate private business" cause I categorically reject that idea. So unless you have a reason why this particular govt regulation is bad, and not just regulation in general is bad, don't try that line of reasoning.

Now, for those who agree with me, got any solid evidence for *why* this is a good thing? Aside from keeping workers from going crazy (all work and no play, make johnny go CRAZY) I know I've heard stats about workplace efficiency and things of that nature, but I will be honest, that data is not why I consider it important. I consider it important because every single week of every single year should not be focused on survival. Once in awhile, those who live near the bottom of the barrel, deserve a chance to rest, to put their feet up, and enjoy life. Just one week a year. 1/52. Less than 2%.

So go ahead, the battle lines are drawn, and I am sad to say, I expect very few surprises when I see who comments and which side of this fight they are one. But please, shock me, or convince me--but do so with data.

Comments

[vitsli.livejournal.com]

>>This is a very basic standard of employment

Why do you need a regulation, if it's a standard?

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Look at the very next thing typed after what you quoted.

"IMO" Do you know what that means? Maybe that will help you understand the rest of my post. Perhaps you should try again.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

This is bad because vacation means less productivity which means less profits so businesses will lose money and have to lay you off.

Checkmate atheists.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Is the profit margin that thin?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Our company's "donate a kidney for 2 weeks paid vacation" is a big hit with hourly workers!

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Ye gods, our children's nanny gets twenty days plus holiday a year, and weekends and bank holidays. And we pay her some £40k a year when you factor in the tax, which we pay on already taxable income.

I don't think very highly of your employer's organisations: and furthermore, I'd suggest that such callousness towards employees isn't much to do with "class" as structural requirements to shareholders, most of which appear to be represented by fund managers and the bourgeois worship of money over honour or right behaviour.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

The employer who gave me benefits did not have shareholders, so that particular theory does not apply. The benefits they gave were not stellar, but compared to many other employers in the same field, it was an improvement. And for a hungry man, even bread and water is a treat.

[silberstreif.livejournal.com]

Have to admit, I'm kind of astounded that the US doesn't even have such a low standart of worker's protection. So, I agree.
Why?
Because one week really isn't much. But you need one week often not only to relax, but for things like: "I want to renovate my house / flat / whatever". Or even just "I want to go across the country to visit my family once a year." But if the vacation isn't paid for, then it means a money loss, which especially people with less good jobs can't afford.
And here's the question: If I pay someone that badly, that he can't afford one week of wage loss... does the company really need this person for 52 weeks a year? Probably not.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Companies need all the cheap labor they can get.... =(

[telemann.livejournal.com]

From 2012 I believe, Bill Maher had a great segment on this:

New Rule: American workers must get at least as much paid vacation as the Chinese slaves who make their iPhones. Did you know that 138 nations mandate vacation time by law? But one of them isn't the Republic of Here. In England, you get 28 paid vacation days a year, in Switzerland you get 20, in Sweden you get 25, in Greece you get infinity. And Americans look at this and think it's weird, without realizing we're the weird ones. They have the right idea. The Declaration of Independence says "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Not "work, consumerism, and the pursuit of profits for Mitt Romney's investors".

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

I knew you'd say that. ;)

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

In the UK the 28 days includes 8 bank holidays. The standard week is five days with a maximum of 48 hours working unless a worker wishes to work longer.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I did not realize that the siesta was meant for sex in the afternoon. I like what he says about foreigners in American parks. I encounter a significant number of foreigners in our local parks, but we have a higher concentration of guest workers in San Francisco than most other cities.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

So here I put this out there, and go ahead and try to sway me, if you disagree with me. But if you do, offer something more substantial than "Govt shouldn't regulate private business" cause I categorically reject that idea. So unless you have a reason why this particular govt regulation is bad, and not just regulation in general is bad, don't try that line of reasoning.

The reason it's bad is because there is no way for the national federal government to understand the business needs of every single business location in the United States. Emphasis mine, because regional and local needs are all over the place, and mandated vacation reduces necessary business flexibility. The assumption that any company can afford to do this without question is immensely dumb, even if it's standard operating procedure now, because it assumes nothing can change.

Should companies be generous with time off? Depending on the job, sure. Unfortunately, that sort of flexibility isn't really allowed with the mandated hourly wages. If we instead moved toward a more salary-based wage structure, it would allow a lot more worker flexibility where employees and employers could work together to maximize productivity with worker attendance.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

"Should companies be generous with time off? Depending on the job, sure."

Which job should they be stingy with time off?

Why is that flexibility not permitted with mandated hourly wages?

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

The reason it's bad is because there is no way for the national federal government to understand the business needs of every single business location in the United States.

True, but there is also no way for feds to "understand" every single need for Holidays for different people, minimum wages, work safety standards. . . . The list is long.

If the feds can mandate working fire exits, they can mandate minimum vacation days.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

So here I put this out there, and go ahead and try to sway me, if you disagree with me.

Because once you set a minimum, no matter how unsatisfactory in real life the minimum is (see minimum wages) then you have not built a floor, you have built a ceiling.

Once you codify into law one week, then that becomes all that is required to comply with the law. In other words, it becomes more of a bottom line situation and not a human resources situation.

Managers here get 10 PTOs (Personal Time Off) annually with the ability to roll over unused days. PTOs can be used for any reason: sick, family needs, vacation. It allows the flexibility of the manager to schedule micro vacations (we are only open 4 days a week and most managers work at or under 40 hours a week).

As a small medium' business under the ACA radar (for now), it would make more sense to have as a benefit the 'mandatory 5 days' than the 'optional 10 days'.

No one gets paid a holiday, unless they are salaried. We are off most holidays except for the few that we have to staff events for. Those folds get tine and a half and a small cash bonus.

This is not a good idea because it removes flexibility with a 'mandatory' minimum thing for exempt employees.

"Big business only"? What "Big business" does not already have a nice vacation package for their ee's?

What is a 'big business' to you? Where is your line between evil entities and job creators?

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

What do you mean, the min wage is a ceiling? This makes no sense to me.

Grayson's bill would draw the line at 100+ employees.

I'm unsure what you are arguing for here. You guys get 10 PTO's/year, but other people who get none don't need em? I don't get it.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

So why would people who work for smaller companies be excluded if this is some basic right? Most people in the US get vacation, including 90% of full time workers, and only about half use all of it. If this was a priority for Americans, why aren't we using the vacation we already get?

Here's some charts for those who like such things, a picture of a dude with his shirt of for those who like such things, and a pretty decent paper on the subject showing what a bunch of slackers the Europeans are. ;P

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2011/01/19/america-no-vacation-time-for-you/

[737-700.livejournal.com]

I never understood excluding workers from smaller companies from getting the same benefits at those in large companies. I work in the hotel industry and the majority of hotels are franchises and thus generally have less then 100 employees, and it would be lovely to get a week off, be nice to get 2 days in a row off... I work 52 weeks a year, and rarely is ever even get 2 consecutive days off.

[gillianinoz.livejournal.com]

Here's a fun thing, you should totally do this! Go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statutory_minimum_employment_leave_by_country

And scroll down the long list of countries - it's even better because the USA is right near the bottom alphabetically. Anyway, you scroll past countries like Brazil (22 working days) and Colombia (15 working days) and Kazakstan (24 calendar days) and then you get to the USA

NONE! No statutory minimum leave AT ALL!

And, I shit you not, they are THE ONLY ONES! Fucking Mongolians get 15 fucking days a year! Mongolians!

Take a look. It's bloody brilliant!

Anyway, my point us, it works. It works all over the world, and in some of those countries, like Australia, our economy is better than yours.

Oz wins again! Yay!

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

except....uhn....you guys are still under the crown. What a bunch of losers....down with monarchy!....even constitutionally limited, nearly never acting monarchy.....

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

One week of vacation per year is not enough to solve the problems of workplace stress. It is like spitting into the wind.

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

The proposed law aims to take from one group of people (employers) and give to another group of people, presumably, the political supporters of Alan Grayson. Confiscation by the government without compensation for partisan purposes may sound appealing, but it is unjust and ultimately only stokes the hunger of the mob for more "free stuff". It would be far better to treat employees as mature, adult human being who are capable of making their own decisions about the mix of pay, benefits and vacation time that best suits their needs.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

The proposed law aims to take from one group of people (employers) and give to another group of people

You can say the same thing about abolishing slavery.

[usekh.livejournal.com]

FFS controversy over ONE WEEK? Y'all need unions.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

Naw, this is about legislating a week's vacation. It seems 90% of full time employees get vacation already, typically two weeks. There are of course some issues around this, such as limiting people's hours so they aren't considered full time, but still, the majority of full time workers in the US get vacation despite all of the graphics showing the US with zero vacation days. Most employers just think it's the right thing to do (and the best way to keep people) even without legislation, which I'd say is a good thing.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

What companies currently don't give their full-time employees at least a week of vacation time?