Talk politics.

As long as he has to pay restitution AND a fine, seems ok to me.

Dude, nearly everyone who commits a crime lies about it...so????

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Ok, that's fair. It's just more evidence that they think they can get away with anything.
(then again, no criminal expects to be caught, else they'd commit crime diff)

But your OK with a theft of $380,000 being just a one year jail term?

What's the value of your car? Dude steals it, you OK with him getting just one year?

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Actually what I may or may not be OK with is totally irrelevant

Honestly, if someone stole my car they would be unlucky to get more than 6 mos, and I probably wouldn't get my car back.
I would actually be ok with someone stealing my truck, then I'd have to get a new one, I have super high miles, but I take good care of it and it still runs well. My wife's van on the other hand doesn't have a large value, but it has very low miles, and I'd hate to have to replace it. But ya know, I'm not vindictive, I prefer restitution. It does me no good if the person who steals my car or my money goes to jail for 6 mos or 10 years.

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That's why I now drive my car slowly through the neighborhood at night, looking for solitary white people. Because they may well be frauds or some other kind of white collar criminal and have to be shot in self-defense after I confront them.

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Your usericon helps that statement. I picture it being said by that Mel Gibson.

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Gee, I wouldn't think too many white people would feel comfortable walking alone in your neighborhood ;P

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Well, if they're wearing a suit or displaying any other signs of white collar behavior like carrying a copy of the Wall Street Journal, it's on!

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rimpala.livejournal.com

Well if they don't want to be preyed on, they shouldn't wear such revealing clothes right? Oh wow what does that sound like...

Edited Date: 29/8/13 05:26 (UTC)

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For the record, that was a joke based on an area I used to play ball, not too far from where fizzy lives.

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rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com

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That was such a cool movie.

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yelena-r0ssini.livejournal.com

It's okay though because they were carrying crackers and fancy cheese, which everyone knows white people traditionally consume with wine.

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rimpala.livejournal.com

hey brie is good stuff >.>

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dwer.livejournal.com

If a guy robbed a bank of that much money, I wonder how many decades the prison term would be...

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Um, he did rob a bank of that much money.

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lulz, yes, but dwer meant "what if a pleb robbed a bank?"

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dwer.livejournal.com

you know what I mean. Walked into a bank with a joker mask and a little sign that says "give me all your money or the chicken gets it."

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Yeah, I was being a smart ass.

I'm okay with non-violent criminals getting less time than the violent ones. A carjacker deserves a stiffer sentence than someone who steals a car from a parking lot for example because there's a greater likelihood someone would get hurt. They're both stealing cars, but there are some differences that can't be ignored when talking about their punishment. What this guy did seems more like fraud, not bank robbery.

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I once worked an auction based on seizures from a Starbucks executive who embezzled a couple million and then went on ridiculous shopping sprees.

Some guy stealing a laptop from corporate offices got a longer jail sentence.

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I'm actually surprised the fellow stealing the laptop got a sentence at all. When my mom was carjacked and the fellow was caught with the car about 20 minutes later, he didn't receive any jail time. Seems the carjacking couldn't be proved without a bit of effort on the part of the folks involved and a plea was easy.

That said, there really aren't any guarantees in our criminal justice system, results may vary. White collar folks get less typically, but some get off ridiculously easy. (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/28/justice/montana-teacher-rape-sentence/index.html?hpt=hp_c2) Once voters, out of fear or disgust, start pushing politicians to crack down on white collar criminals, expect this to continue.

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There was a trend for a while in the downtown business area of junkie-types walking into offices and looking for unsecured electronics. In the case I mentioned, the dude basically ran right into security on the way out and there was in-office video showing him doing the snatch-and-grab so it was pretty ease to prosecute.

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peristaltor.livejournal.com

Once voters, out of fear or disgust, start pushing politicians to crack down on white collar criminals, expect this to continue.

That'll be the day. In order for voters to hear about it, the politicians will have to mention is as a priority. Given the cash flowing into campaign war chests from the financial industry, I doubt that funding third rail will be kissed any time soon.

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Also, the part about stealing a laptop doesn't seem to be a good comparison either. From what I can tell, this guy didn't take the money and buy himself a condo, it looks like the condo was bank property. Of course, this is a serious misuse of the bank's money, but not quite the same thing as stealing.

Also, he pled guilty to lying about what was done with the money, not stealing it. Don't get me wrong, he seems like a dirt bag, but misusing a company's money is very different than stealing it. Saying he stole $380,000 is simply incorrect.

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Hmm, when I read it, sounded like he siphoned off the money to buy a vacation condo.

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It was a vacation home... for him and other execs at the bank. Nice perk but it doesn't sound like his condo but rather the bank's.

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well we know what happens if you try to steal $1 from a bank to get healthcare from the prisons....

the judge gives you a shorter sentence, and you'll get less healthcare..... (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/06/1-bank-robbery-doesnt-pay-off-for-healthcare-hopeful.html)

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brother-dour.livejournal.com

http://news.delaware.gov/2013/07/25/duo-receive-lengthy-prison-sentences-for-2011-bank-robbery-shootout-with-police/ (http://news.delaware.gov/2013/07/25/duo-receive-lengthy-prison-sentences-for-2011-bank-robbery-shootout-with-police/)

And I bet they didn't steal anywhere near $380,000... Put this banker dude in prison for 96 years and see how fast this type of embezzlement drops.

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"Duo receive lengthy prison sentences for 2011 bank robbery, shootout"

Did you read the link you posted? I am honestly curious as how you could relate the two as being comparable crimes.
A number of states have mandatory prison time for using a gun in the commission of a crime.
Delaware has mandatory prison sentences for felons being just in possession of a gun.

http://news.delaware.gov/2013/06/20/measure-that-increases-minimum-jail-sentences-for-illegal-possession-of-guns-advances-in-general-assembly/

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brother-dour.livejournal.com

I realized that a variety of other factors were involved. But my assertion fundamentally stands: white collar crimes are woefully under-punished- to the point that punishment really doesn't mean anything and is no longer a deterrant.

Even if these guys were first-time offenders and didn't use anything more than their hand in their pockets, they would get a LOT more than a freaking year in prison!

Edited Date: 29/8/13 22:55 (UTC)

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I'm not gonna compare violent crimes with non-violent ones, but you are aware of the mandatory minimum sentences that apply to many non-violent drug crimes, right?

MMS in CT for selling any amount of marijuana to a minor is three years

That's right. Sell 1 gram of pot to a 17 y/o, HS senior and get caught? Three years of your life behind bars, no way around it....

So I will happily grant the difference between violent and non-violent crime.
Our prisons are filled with non-violent offenders.

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Yes, I do know and you are correct, and I was making no comment about that.

While I tend to think there is a good reason for mandatory sentencing guidelines I am not blind to the fact they are not always equitable, by that I mean some crimes seem to have harsher penalties than they deserve and others not harsh enough. Of course we might disagree on which was which :D (this is the perfect place for yes justice to put in the Steppenwolf song about the "pusher man") Wait, I may be able to give a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-9iNVoeghI

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Screencaps of this dude's twitter for his hypocrisy: http://imgur.com/a/WvgI4

Every time someone rallies against something far more passionately than normal it means either they got something to hide or they're hypocrites.

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Are you suggesting I am secretly a banker? ;)

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Also... take into account that the bank paid the TARP money back. So in total no stealing taxpayer dollars occurred, just perjury.

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the-rukh.livejournal.com

There was still stealing, the bank just made enough to cover it.

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"So in total no stealing taxpayer dollars occurred"

Edited Date: 29/8/13 07:10 (UTC)

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the-rukh.livejournal.com

Which is pretty arbitrary. The stealing still occurred, it just was remedied. If I beat the crap out of someone and they eventually heal, the assault still occurred.

Likewise, if I rob a bank for 100,000. I can't go "Oh well you caught me! Here's the money back!" And get out of jail free. The robbery still occurred and I'm going to jail for a very long time.

Edited Date: 29/8/13 16:06 (UTC)

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telemann.livejournal.com

Yeah, it's a bit different, but still it's the same notion you're getting at: when Wesley Snipes was facing jail time for not paying his taxes, he forked over a multi-million dollar check to the federal judge. The IRS said thank you, but they still put him in jail for a few years to make an example. (For what it's worth, that was a dumb decision though, considering the money he would have made while working and paying taxes compared to being in a light security prison instead). It's one of the rarest instances they don't play when it comes to white collar crime.

And on the other hand, you had those cases in Michigan were guys were sentenced for life without parole for drug dealing for having in one instance (http://www.maryellenmark.com/text/magazines/rolling%20stone/920S-000-013.html) 8 kilograms of coke AND the guy wasn't guilty in the first place.

Edited Date: 29/8/13 16:39 (UTC)

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He stole from his own bank (and again, they signed off on it, foolishly), he only lied to the federal government.

This is something to be taken into account when you look at his sentencing.

Edited Date: 29/8/13 17:49 (UTC)

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He's the CEO--who do you think, at the bank, "Signed off on it" ???

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What kind of requirements did TARP give this bank? The big banks had clear marching orders, but the small ones? I don't think it was very clear. It doesn't seem to be in violation of TARP to spend the money on whatever you want, as long as you pay it back. His only crime seems to be that he lied about it. If you look at the article, I don't see any charges of robbery or theft, only misleading federal investigators.

It makes the comparison 'well if I robbed a bank I'd get life!' seem very strange.

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peristaltor.livejournal.com

Ah, SIGTARP, protectors of taxpayer money. Sadly, they can't comment on Treasury policy, only go after bad bankers using money badly.

Really, if you want a good perspective on how bad this situation is, read Neil Barofsky's book.

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oportet.livejournal.com

I figure he stole more than 380k, he only got caught stealing 380k. I have nothing to back that up, just seems odd for someone to make a one time run at that exact amount. Also, a luxury waterfront condo in Florida is going to take out 380k easy (I'm assuming it's not on the waterfront of the Chattahoochee up near the Georgia line)

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sophia-sadek.livejournal.com

I remember when the Reagan administration proposed soft sentencing guidelines for white collar offenders. They contended that the well healed would not take incarceration the right way.

As a convicted felon Woods can now move to a more respectable business such as street pharmacy, erotic services, or MMP gold digging.

BTW, wasn't one of the brothers of Bush the Younger involved in a banking fiasco during the previous century?

Edited Date: 29/8/13 15:26 (UTC)

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