[identity profile] nairiporter.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
He said, "I am an expert with a Ph.D."
She heard, "I am Al-Qaeda."


This is a comment under a BuzzFeed article following last Friday's FoxNews show, Spirited Debate, where the host Lauren Green interviewed the theology scientist Reza Aslan, and it pretty much sums up what happened on screen. The whole interview may not only be a contender for the Most Provocative and Absurd TV Shows award, but also an eloquent manual of How Not To Do Journalism. And it speaks a lot about prejudice, and cultural insensitivity, and tolerance. Or rather, the lack thereof.

The guest Reza Aslan was introduced by Green as "a former Christian who turned to the religion of his ancestors (Islam), and authored a new book about Jesus Christ". The book, entitled Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth, quickly became subject to criticism and accusations, primarily due to the religious affiliation of its author. And naturally, that was Green's first question to Aslan: why had he written a book about the founder of Christianity, if he himself was Muslim? After that introduction, the Iranian-American author decided to politely provide some clarifications about his background. He is a theology scholar with four PhDs (one of them, specifically on studying the Old Testament), he is fluent in ancient Greek, and has researched for decades on the foundations of Christianity. So he is "not just a Muslim writing about Jesus, but rather an expert on the history of religion".

However, this explanation wasn't sufficient for the host, who apparently insisted on creating the impression that Aslan's religion had a direct effect on the quality of his book. So she went on with "But this doesn't answer the question, why would you be interested about the founder of Christianity?" At this point Aslan, (who is also a professor at the University of California), with a certain hint of growing impatience, explained that this is actually his job, and it is what he does for a living.

In the course of the interview, the host cited several critical comments about Aslan's book. For instance, one pastor John Dickerson claimed that the treatise was not a historical research, but rather the personal opinion of some Muslim who happened to be educated about Jesus Christ. Aslan himself emphasised that anyone who had actually bothered to read the book would have known that he had clearly distanced himself from the official position of the Islamic doctrine on Jesus, in other words he didn't write the book as a Muslim, but certainly in his capacity of a scholar. According to Islam, Jesus Christ was indeed immaculately conceived, but was not crucified - a claim which Aslan went out of his way to disprove in his book. He believes it is exactly the crucifixion as a form of death penalty in 1st century Palestine that is a clear indicator about who Jesus was and what his social and historical role was. It was people who posed a real danger for the political establishment in the Roman Empire who were being punished by crucifixion. So his conclusion is that Jesus was indeed a rebel and a fighter for change in the then existing imperial order.

Reza Aslan argued that his book was not intended as an attack on Christianity. But the host pressed on, and forced him to go on the defense and explain that his mother and his wife are in fact Christian. The author, who has been researching and analysing the historical figure of Jesus Christ for more than two decades, said he found it unfair and wrong that, instead of debating the arguments and the contents of the book as a whole, the very right of its author to write it was being questioned, solely based on his religious affiliations.

When asked whether writing a scientific work about Jesus was comparable to a Democrat hypothetically writing a scientific work about Ronald Reagan, Aslan gathered what looked like his last remaining traces of patience and explained that there would have been nothing wrong in that, as long as said Democrat had some relevant expertise on Reagan's policies. But even then, Lauren Green did not quit accusing her guest that he hadn't openly declared his affiliation to Islam in advance. To which his response was that his faith was in fact mentioned in the very second page of the book - which only confirmed that Lauren Green had not bothered to read beyond the title and the name of the author.

All that said, from the dialogue in the interview the impression remains that Aslan's book will remain a "closed page" for Lauren Green and unfortunately, not only for her but also for many people who tend to share her approach. This is evident by the fact that a great number of people had voted on the Amazon page of the book with the lowest possible rating, stating reasons in the comments such as "he's just a Muslim, not a scholar". And that is some sad evidence that religious and cultural stereotypes are still alive and well even in a developed society in the 21st century, and are as persistent as they are absurd and irrational.

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(no subject)

Date: 30/7/13 17:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
That interview was so cringe worthy. Reza Aslan is an extremely articulate guy; and I love listening, and learning from him.
Edited Date: 30/7/13 17:32 (UTC)

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Date: 30/7/13 17:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
I still haven't watched the whole thing, but it did prompt me to request the book from the library, so it's working for him.
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Date: 30/7/13 17:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com
Frankly, I blame superstitious Christians.

I really wish someone would dig up a gospel from the desert sands and pronounce the only way to god is through slow and painful suicide.

There. I fixed it.

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Date: 30/7/13 17:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Isn't Buddhism all about slow and painful suicide? (Layman's question here).

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Date: 30/7/13 17:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soliloquy76.livejournal.com
"On Monday, Random House, Mr. Aslan’s publisher, said the interview had clearly helped the book: in two days, sales increased 35 percent. On Friday, “Zealot” was in the No. 8 spot on Amazon.com, the nation’s biggest seller of books; by Sunday, it had hit No. 1."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/30/business/media/odd-fox-news-interview-lifts-reza-aslans-biography-on-jesus.html

Mr. Aslan thanks you, Lauren Green and Roger Ailes.

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Date: 30/7/13 23:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
Mr. Aslan thanks you, Lauren Green and Roger Ailes.

I wonder if they have learned anything from the experience. There are at least three options.

a) No they haven't, and they retain the position that a scholar, who happens to be a Muslim, can't write about Jesus with expertise.

b) Yes they have, and now have a more nuanced understanding of scholarship and its relationship to an individual's faith tradition.

c) Yes they have, and now know better than to try to argue with a person with PhD in a relevant are.


Sadly, I suspect the order of things will be a), c) and b).

(no subject)

Date: 31/7/13 15:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
It reminds me of the way that movie makers hoped that the Catholic Church would condemn their films so that more people would go to see them. Be careful what you pray for: you just might get it.

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Date: 30/7/13 17:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
That is why that call it Faux News. My issue with the interview is that Green claimed that Jesus was the founder of Christianity. That is far from the case. The movement that Jesus was associated with would not be considered Christian by modern standards.

The title of the book fascinates me because I recently read an article on the debate over who qualifies as an authentic Zealot and who does not. The article debunked the notion that the Zealots did not come about until long after the demise departure of Jesus. The article also took issue with those who claim that Jesus himself qualified as a Zealot. He would not qualify as such on the basis that he did not advocate violent action.
Edited Date: 30/7/13 17:23 (UTC)

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Date: 30/7/13 17:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luzribeiro.livejournal.com
Fox has proclaimed itself as the bringer of Balance to the Force (whether they'd do it through bringing more dark force into the mix to even out the light force, or something else, is not specified).

There's a lot of balancing needed to even out Teh Ebil Liburl Lamestream Mediaz, it would seem. So far they're doing well on that front.

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Date: 30/7/13 17:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
I've been watching DaVinci's Demons these days, and I'm seeing a claim being made there that Roman Mithraism (not to be confused with Zoroastrian-related Mitra cultism) was a major contender to Christianity in its early stages. But was later stomped upon like the rest of Christianity's contender cults. Some scholars have gone as far as to claim that given slightly different circumstances, "the Western world could've been Mithraist rather than Christian today". While, given the relatively limited extent of Roman Mithraism even at the time of its zenith that looks highly unlikely, still, the hypothesis is kind of fascinating. Not that there seemed to be so many fundamental differences between the two contenders at the time, but anyway.

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Date: 30/7/13 17:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com
He would not qualify as such on the basis that he did not advocate violent action.

This assumes that our records of what he said are accurate and complete.

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Date: 30/7/13 17:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Gee, that lady is stubborn.

I kinda like her.

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Date: 30/7/13 17:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luzribeiro.livejournal.com
You mean religious issues could actually be approached while taking NUANCE in consideration!???!?11!1 But, but... isn't it all supposed to be either black (Allah/Al-Qaeda/Satan) or white (Jesus/love/AMERIKKA!)?

/confus'd/


Ps. Also: LOL, FOX. 'Nuff said.

(no subject)

Date: 30/7/13 17:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com
On twitter some folks started a hashtag called foxnewslitcrit. Some examples:

"Ms Rowling, how can you, as a mudblood, write about Wizards?" #foxnewslitcrit (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23foxnewslitcrit&src=hash)

— Zarrar Khuhro (@ZarrarKhuhro) July 28, 2013 (https://twitter.com/ZarrarKhuhro/statuses/361535738644414466)



"Mr. Bradbury, how do you square the fact that you, a human man, have never actually been to Mars?" #foxnewslitcrit (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23foxnewslitcrit&src=hash)

— Ellen McGirt (@ellmcgirt) July 28, 2013 (https://twitter.com/ellmcgirt/statuses/361524115984760832)



Ms. Shelley, we demand to know where you got your degree in biology. #foxnewslitcrit (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23foxnewslitcrit&src=hash)

— Amanda Marcotte (@AmandaMarcotte) July 28, 2013 (https://twitter.com/AmandaMarcotte/statuses/361551129890394113)



"As a human, Mr. Tolkien, *why* wld you want to write about hobbits? It just doesn't make sense." #foxnewslitcrit (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23foxnewslitcrit&src=hash)

— JeffSharlet (@JeffSharlet) July 28, 2013 (https://twitter.com/JeffSharlet/statuses/361521051995357185)



John, Paul, George & Ringo, you have never served in uniform, what gives you the right to sing about a Sgt. named Pepper? #FoxNewsLitCrit (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FoxNewsLitCrit&src=hash)

— BADGOP (@BADGOP) July 30, 2013 (https://twitter.com/BADGOP/statuses/362231507856785409)



Mr. Zelazny, do you really that feel you, an inhabitant of Shadow, are qualified to describe the one, true world of Amber? #foxnewslitcrit (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23foxnewslitcrit&src=hash)

— Daniel Lustig (@dexeron) July 29, 2013 (https://twitter.com/dexeron/statuses/361950951722057728)

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Date: 30/7/13 17:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com
this is why we cannot have nice things

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Date: 31/7/13 15:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
That sounds like a lady from San Francisco.

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Date: 30/7/13 17:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
Gee, and like, anyone with even a passing knowledge of the religion knows that Muslims believe Jesus was a profit...

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Date: 30/7/13 17:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
This requires that they'd actually care to learn things about some other religion other than their own.

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A profit?

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Date: 30/7/13 17:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
From what I've been reading, the specific show he was on was less about his book and more about debating his writing about it to begin with, about the "controversy" (in some circles, I guess - I hadn't heard much about him other than his words about Atheism+) of his faith in comparison to what he was writing about. And given that the book, from what I've heard, calls into question the Virgin Birth (a central belief of Christianity), I'm not sure the questions to start were completely off-base (especially given that he held his credentials up as something important (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/getreligion/2013/07/snickering-at-foxnews-while-getting-duped-by-zealot-author/) but didn't really position them accurately).

This is really more a lesson of how poorly a television segment can handle a controversial topic than anything else. Fox shouldn't have bothered, and Aslan should have been more careful and more prepared for the question.

(no subject)

Date: 30/7/13 18:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soliloquy76.livejournal.com
It's unfortunate that they didn't debate his writing at all. It's clear from the interview that Green nor her researchers had read the book or knew anything about the book other than it being about Jesus and written by a Muslim. That's likely the only reason they ran with this segment: Fox News loves to throw red meat to its evangelical segment and thought they had a slam dunk here. Unfortunately for them, they came out looking like fools to most.

And given that the book, from what I've heard, calls into question the Virgin Birth (a central belief of Christianity), I'm not sure the questions to start were completely off-base

A couple of issues with this: the interviewer never once cited anything from the book. She only used quotes from others -- who may or may not have read the book -- to form her argument. Also, the basis of her argument was to question whether a Muslim was writing a hit piece on Christianity (or at least suggesting it wasn't appropriate). If it's true that his book questioned the virgin birth, and it's true that Islam considers the virgin birth to be true as the OP mentions (I'm assuming both of these things are true), then that means he wasn't approaching this from an Islamic perspective, but rather from an academic one as he insisted.

This is really more a lesson of how poorly a television segment can handle a controversial topic than anything else.

True, but it's also a lesson on why a news network should avoid this kind of thing altogether. This is the exact opposite of journalism and doesn't do Fox News' credibility any favors.

Aslan should have been more careful and more prepared for the question.

How should he have responded to the question? I think the main reason this clip went viral, aside from the sheer absurdity on Fox News' part, was his rational and concise replies.
Edited Date: 30/7/13 18:17 (UTC)

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Date: 30/7/13 18:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com
not intended as an attack on Christianity.

This is hilarious. One can only imagine the reaction of a Christian writing a book on Mohamed and claiming Mohamed wasn't who Muslims say he was.
Edited Date: 30/7/13 18:27 (UTC)

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Date: 30/7/13 18:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soliloquy76.livejournal.com
I think you're confusing intention with interpretation.

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Date: 30/7/13 18:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
The real reason Dr. Aslan got the third degree?

He paints Jesus as a left-wing radical. He's right, of course, but the Crossers don't like it.

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Date: 30/7/13 19:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
And the liburl university establishmunt rewards him with a degree! How predictable!

I blame Marx. Or maybe Obama.

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Date: 30/7/13 20:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] liveonearth.livejournal.com
She's an idiot reading from the Fox idiot script.

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Date: 30/7/13 21:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
Whatever, I'm getting real tired of arguing with bigots about why their bigotry is wrong lately...

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Date: 31/7/13 00:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yelena-r0ssini.livejournal.com
I watched that clip a few days ago and found myself nostalgic for the days of Da Ali G Show.

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Date: 31/7/13 08:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
Jesus was a Jew, therefore everything he said about Christians beliefs is invalid.


Hrm. That makes the way most Christians behave make sense.

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Date: 5/8/13 18:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
FYI, here (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/sisterrosemovies/2013/07/sr-rose-interviews-reza-aslan-on-zealot-the-life-and-times-of-jesus-of-nazareth/) is a more adept interview with Aslan.

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