[identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
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Who takes the most important decisions in EU? The answer should be: the states and the government leaders. But behind the scenes in Brussels, thousands of lobbyists are trying to influence politics - and often not in the healthiest of ways.

The EU does have a shady face too, a world of politics where decisions are formed outside the official conferences and parliament discussions. It's the shady world of lobbyism - the hordes of secretive "advisors" attaching themselves to the rulers - nameless people who in most cases remain anonymous, who are never elected by anyone, and yet exert enormous influence.

The following scene is very telling of the extent where their influence can spread. Imagine a posh Brussels restaurant. A man is proudly telling the story of his lobbyist heroics to the woman sitting in front of him: how he advocated for the interests of several clients and earned 100,000 euros annually from this. But this man is actually not a lobbyist - he's the leader of the political faction of the Austrian conservatives at the EU parliament, Ernst Strasser.

The conversation was videotaped with a hidden camera. The footage was included in the documentary on the trailer video, entitled The Brussels Business. It was first shown on the German-French TV channel Arte. For four years, the Austrian film director and producer Friedrich Moser and his Belgian associate Matthieu Lietaert had worked through all the evidence about "EU's black box". They wanted to dig to the very bottom of this story and find out where the ideas for all the elaborate European legislation are being born, who actually initiates them, and ultimately who pulls the strings. And whether the democratically elected governments and people's representatives are really forging the policies that affect millions of Europeans - or it's the managers, CEOs and strategists of the big corporations. In Strasser's case, things were clarified relatively quickly, and in March 2011 he was forced to resign - after which all EMPs were explicitly prohibited from getting involved in lobbyism.

The thing is, a large part of the lobbyist system in Brussels is completely legal and has been active for quite a while. I'm sure many of our American friends would find this story very familiar, but it's a fact that the influence of various lobbyist interests in the EU is really huge, as Moser has demonstrated in his documentary. The lobbyists are the ones who usually prepare the expert details on any given subject that's being put for discussion in the European parliament. |the problem is that the EU institutions, especially the European Commission, do not have enough staff to work through such detailed research, which is why they depend on external experts.

It is believed that there are between 10 and 20 thousand active lobbyists in Brussels. Their proximity to the politicians is remarkable. The HQs of the lobbyist organizations working for companies like British Petroleum, Philip Morris and the rest are located next to the buildings of the EC, the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament. According to data from the Corporate Europe Observatory, an expert monitoring group, over a billion euro is being spent annually for lobbyism in EU.

Many NGOs believe that the money is taking precedence in the lobbyist scramble for gaining attention and influence, and that's exactly the reason why lobbyism is turning from a necessary nuisance into a real threat to democracy. These NGOs have now prompted an investigation against the European Commission itself. The main reason for concern are the multiple cases of staff transferring between the EC and the lobbyist circles, and viceversa. In other words, quite obviously these two have become too intertwined, blurring ethical lines (wherever they existed) and raising concerns about massive conflict of interests.

Of course, the lobbyists vehemently deny all this, arguing that their tireless efforts are only meant to be bringing positive results. They argue that what's good for big business, is ultimately good for the citizens, and that "lobbyism" should not be a dirty word, because it's a system that allows for a better network of connections between entrepreneurs (job creators) and their shareholders (i.e. the people) on one side, and policy-makers (i.e. politicians, or people's represenatives) on the other.

No doubt, lobbyism does serve an important function, because it provides the legislators with condensed and expert information on particular economic and social issues. But it can become dangerous when it gets involved in corruption practices, when money starts dictating the rules of the game, and when the rules of transparency and fairness are overstepped - and that's the bottom-line of The Brussels Business.

(no subject)

Date: 23/2/13 16:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com
You mean that's not the way government is supposed to work? speaking as an American. Heh, sometimes we have the process so streamlined that our business lobbyists merely have to hand in drafted legislation to the Congress and they will pass it straight into law like a rubber stamp, or such were the days when Newt Gingrich was the speaker of the House. Of course, we also now understand that corporations are people, too! And, surely, they should have a voice in our governance.

It's kind of a nightmare. But like climate change, one cannot see a way out.

(no subject)

Date: 23/2/13 20:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
The business-drafted legislation is actually a bigger issue at the state and local level, where there are fewer resources and less attention on each piece of legislation.

(no subject)

Date: 23/2/13 21:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com
I don't doubt it. I'm in Texas and there is no pretending that government is anything but a handmaiden to business interests.

(no subject)

Date: 23/2/13 23:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unnamed525.livejournal.com
I love the smell of fascism in the morning.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 15:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
Technically that would be mercantilism.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 18:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
Good point.

East India Company, was the parralel that I was thinking of but the Germanies circa 1600 would wrk as well.

(no subject)

Date: 23/2/13 18:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
As us Americans can attest: do not let special interest lobbies have any political power. That way lies madness and a certain erosion of representative government.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 15:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
The question is what constitutes a special intrest? How is a teacher's union lobbying the state for higher wages any different from a buisiness lobbying for a tax break?

It reminds me of a quote that i can't seem to find at the moment but the jist is...

When politicians are allowed to control what is bought or sold, politicians will be the first item bought or sold.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 18:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
Good quote. Perhaps if we remove the cash connection from the lobby, we can just say that one person lobbying is the same as the next.

Once the purse strings are attached, the non-profitable lobbies cannot compete.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 18:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
Cutting the purse strings is a nice idea but i dont think its realistic.

Wealth is power, and power is wealth.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 19:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
If we dismiss the mere idea before we even try to implement it, power/wealth will continue to metastatize. That can only bring collapse, at which point anyone's ability to affect change might be sidetracked by the need to feed one's self.

(no subject)

Date: 25/2/13 01:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
The thing is that power/wealth need to be concentrated if certain function of the government are to be fufilled. Concentrations of wealth/power will inevitably attract those who are attracted by wealth/power. We as a society have decided that this metastatization, nice word choice by the way, is an acceptable price to pay.

(no subject)

Date: 26/2/13 01:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
Some bodily growths (moles, for example) do no harm to the body, and can be therefore ignored. Others draw nutrients from the body to such a degree that the body cannot survive.

I'm not questioning wealth/power concentrations of any degree; only the degree at which the concentration becomes metastatic. The current concentration should be a cause for concern; that it is increasing should be outright alarming.

(no subject)

Date: 26/2/13 18:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
The current concentration should be a cause for concern; that it is increasing should be outright alarming.

On this we agree *tips hat*

(no subject)

Date: 25/2/13 17:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
The American system was established as a compromise between special interests.

(no subject)

Date: 26/2/13 03:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
I don't think it was intended to be that way. IMHO, if the Founding Fathers would have been able to see what special interests and lobbying have done to our political system back in 1789, there would have been an eleventh amendment added then to specifically ban that whole notion.

(no subject)

Date: 26/2/13 16:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Things were pretty bad back then. There were a number of founders who decried the quality of the people being elected for public office. The constitutional convention would never have been held if the confederation of states had not fallen down in its duties to govern.

(no subject)

Date: 26/2/13 18:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
This is true- and admittedly it is always kind of a tricky thing (read: impossible) to figure out what people who died centuries ago were really thinking. Given my understanding of their guiding principles and beliefs about representative government, though, I think they would have been appalled by the extent of lobbying in our current system, if not by the idea.

(no subject)

Date: 28/2/13 17:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I doubt that they would have been all that shocked. Some might even say, "I told you so." Let us not forget that Alexander Hamilton was tried (unsuccessfully) for corruption due to the profiteering of stock jobbers. The founders knew quite a bit about the pitfalls of excessive commercialism.

(no subject)

Date: 23/2/13 19:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
They argue that what's good for big business, is ultimately good for the citizens. . . .

Zounds, but that argument pisses me off to no end. It is wrong, dead wrong, and getting wronger by the minute.

Of course, this is also the argument that says a strong stock market ticker is an indication of a healthy economy, or a high GDP means people are happy. It's like arguing that beauty mark on your cheek cannot possibly be malignant melanoma because it's pretty.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 07:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
They've never heard of Upton Sinclair, have they? He pretty much proved that what is good for businesses is often terrible for the rest of us. Or maybe rivers that routinely catch fire are actually good for us? 10+ percent unemployment due to a dishonest, unregulated home finance industry sure doesn't seem very good for us...
Edited Date: 24/2/13 07:56 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 15:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
Not exactly unregulated, the regs that were on the books were half of the problem. Afterall, if you incentivise loaning to people who otherwise can't pay the loan back you cant really complain when that is exactly what happens.
Edited Date: 24/2/13 15:44 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 18:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
Ah, but who lobbied for that particular regulation? (Hint: barely-able-to-repay lenders prove the most profitable to the lending institution.)

And we come full circle, from lobby to law to result that sucks for society, exactly what the OP discusses.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 18:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
Again good point, but that is because the regs were structured in such a way as to make that the case. So which came first? Chicken or Egg?

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 19:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
Consider a scenario, where good banking regulation is enacted. Call it the Great Depression.

Over time, the lessons the crash taught are forgotten. Some quick brain in a bank suggests the bank takes advantage of the 1978 ('79?) Marquette Decision, which states that the interest applicable to any loan falls under the jurisdiction of the state in which the bank is incorporated. "Quick," says the quick brain, "lobby the governor to reduce the minimum interest rate to 0%!"

In North Dakota and Maryland, it is done. Credit cards, now offered at affordable rates, proliferate. The bank profits start to grow.

There are hiccups along the way, of course, like the Latin America crash in 1982, where banks lost as much money as they ever earned in the past. Commercial banks were making some money on credit cards, true; but they really wanted to reduce risk and improve profits (like those the investment banks enjoyed). So they started to lobby again, to slowly remove the separations installed with the 1934 Glass Steaggall Act. And they earned more money, which gave them even more lobby power.

They could even afford the lobby of Alan Greenspan, who was paid to lobby on behalf of Lincoln Savings to the Keating Five, John McCain among them. Alan, a devotee and personal fried of Ayn Rand, said that the market could regulate itself, and could the government get out of regulation? That brought the 1987 Lincoln Savings collapse. Still, the banks had enough money to lobby and avoid truly onerous regulation that had "held them back" from 1934 onward.

(From that we also got Joe the Plumber, son of the vice president of Lincoln Savings, who was "discovered" by the "news media" after harranging candidate Obama.)

In 1999, say, the banks get big enough to convince some neo-classical economists (the kind that don't include banking in their economic models, of course) to advise Pres. Clinton that Glass Steaggall was silly, and that he should sign the bill rescinding it. Since everyone surrounding the president came from banking or didn't believe "hurting" banks through regulation was good, he had no way to check the theory the presented.

Now that they could literally print money for speculative investment, the banks truly grew, and spread their wealth throughout the regulatory system, creating a perfect example of the prisoner dictating terms to the warden.

I could go on.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 18:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
10+ percent unemployment due to a dishonest, unregulated home finance industry. . . .

I would argue that banking was only partly to blame, being more the ultimate cause of the crash rather than the proximate. I agree, the outcome sucked, but others were more immediately involved in causing the crash.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 18:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
Point being: you cannot trust Big Business to do anything but make the most profit possible. Government is needed to force some degree of ethical behavior on them.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 19:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
Business is in the business of being profitable. You can't blame the scorpion for its stinger.

I agree, thought, that what we've lost here is the necessary deliniation government provides to determine which practices are harmful and which are beneficial.

(no subject)

Date: 25/2/13 17:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
What is good for M & M Enterprises (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_Minderbinder) is good for America.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 11:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lai-choi-san.livejournal.com
ARTE is an excellent channel, one of the most viewed and the favorite one for the French. Is ARTE a well-known channel in Sweden ? It's not for a survey, I'm just curious.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 17:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lai-choi-san.livejournal.com
I've forgotten to say that I watched "The Brussels Business". This documentary has the merit to show the concrete reality of something that many were aware of but only vaguely. Now I can't read the words "think tank" on papers from the European Commission without a certain suspicion.

(no subject)

Date: 24/2/13 13:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papasha-mueller.livejournal.com
Those who speak French or German may enjoy this docu in full on Youtube.
The full version is etwa 70-80 min. long.

(no subject)

Date: 25/2/13 17:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I like the way you define "the people" as corporate shareholders. Consequently, hose who own no shares are treated as less than human.

(no subject)

Date: 25/2/13 17:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I agree that it was unfair to put the words into your mouth. I regret my error and promise to pay penance to the proper authorities.

(no subject)

Date: 25/2/13 18:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Trolling seems to be the habit of the entire TP community. I suppose you would prefer that I bow out.

(no subject)

Date: 25/2/13 19:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papasha-mueller.livejournal.com
I can see the word 'trolling' greatly misused.
Whom do I report it to?

(no subject)

Date: 25/2/13 20:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papasha-mueller.livejournal.com
(nodding) Good choice, doghta.
'I'll pass it over to Vladimir.'

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