Isn't it time we had an honest dialogue about the US?

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

I am not sure what TV show this video is from, but it is pretty spot on, even for fiction.

After watching it and picking up heart up off the floor, it made me think about how I used to think about my country, and how I think now.

I am not sure how to contort this post to include all the necessary parts to 'make a propah t_p post', but I know there are more non-US citizens in this community than any other.

I don't want to hear from people from the US. I want to hear from the others.

Suppose the US was your friend. They had an ego, sure; but you tolerated them because, hey, United States, yo! Then someone did what the character did in the video,  totally deflated Uncle Sam's ego, then gave them some great advice to eschew in their humble mode.

Based on the video, if you were BFF with the US, after a tough slap of reality, what kind of tough love advice would you give us?

ETA: far be it for me to tell someone not to post, but when you do, you prove their point. Also I now recognize the "West Wing" flavor of this video, a show I never missed an episode of and pretty much quit watching TV after it ended. Thanks for the clue givers.

Comments

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, that video is such bullshit. I was with it right til around 2:10 or so, when he called the grown woman asking a question a "sorority girl," implied she was too stupid to know anything about anything, and went on to rhapsodize about how great and free America was when only people like him (white straight cis men who have money) had rights. Fuck that shit.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

evidently, you can't comprehend reading. This post is not about your opinion, nor anyone else in the US.

Just sit back and try to learn something, please!

[chron-job.livejournal.com]

> when he called the grown woman asking a question a "sorority girl," implied she was too stupid to know
> anything about anything, and went on to rhapsodize about how great and free America was when only
> people like him (white straight cis men who have money) had rights. Fuck that shit

I think every one has gotten caught up with the idea of Will McAvoy as the voice of Sorkin, that they forget that McAvoy is, as a character, supposed to be something of an ass.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

The character is a sometimes-douchebag and an entitled diva, not everything that comes out of his mouth are gems, it's usually a mixed bag, like this speech. In the show, he gets in a lot of trouble for it (he is a Republican), and gives an apology to the girl. In essence, the character is rather ageist rather often on the show, but has a lot of knowledge and skill too.

Still, watch it, it's a good show, with many good characters, full of complexity and gray areas. :)

[mutive.livejournal.com]

You do realize that this comes from a TV show, right? A sitcom? (The Newsroom, I think.) The character is fictional. Both characters are fictional, actually.

[koken23.livejournal.com]

Best thing America can do is LISTEN.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

elaborate a bit, please?

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Saw it on reddit a while ago.

First half is an appeal to Democrats.
Second half is an appeal to Republicans.

Neither are realistic.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

I agree actually

[telemann.livejournal.com]

It's from HBO's News Room, Aaron Sorkin is the producer and writer, who was also was the producer & writer I think for West Wing and the movie The Social Network. It's a great show, and Fox News, and the conservative libertarian blogosphere has gone into full rabid attack mode on this series. Including Utah senator Mike Lee, (http://youtu.be/0_i9fw43Moo) who was a Tea Party favorite and primaried a conservative Republican senator). No small wonder when you consider the character Jeff Daniels plays is a Republican who is frustrated the Tea Party hijacked "his" party. The episode dealing with the 2010 Congressional elections had an interesting scene where Will McAvoy (Daniels) is talking to his boss, Charlie Skinner (Sam Waterson) about how essentially different the Democratic Party was with its more extreme elements versus what happened with the Republican party via the Tea Party, and how fundamentally different they were. ( They talked about anti Vietnam war party and the SDS (Students for Democratic Society) being co-opted by the radical left (Abbie Hoffman and the Yippies, etc), but the Democratic party itself never cow-towed to such "extreme" elements by allowing them to speak at the convention, etc). It's a great scene. Because it utterly demolishes this idea the the Democratic Party was completely overran with crazed liberals and socialists. Jane Fonda is the executive in charge of the news network portrayed in the series, and gives a great performance. The opening for the Tea Party episode was a scathing admission by Will McAvoy of his failure as a newsman, but it was really about network television news in general:

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

I love the show, and am following it pretty rigorously. On the other hand, The West Wing was one of my all time favorites. I watched it with fascination while still living in Sweden, and it actually almost made me as eager to try to live in the US, as my fiancee did.

[new-wave-witch.livejournal.com]

The commentary about the present is interesting. The commentary about the past is laughable.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

That was kind of my take as well.

[stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com]

It's from the fictional HBO series The Newsroom

Yeah. I saw this on Google+. I listened uncomfortably to the whole thing.

This is the kind of rant a grandpa does at Thanksgiving after he gets drunk and before he passes out in front of the TV and drools all over himself. The only line that's missing is "This country is going to hell in a handbasket."

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

You forgot "you kids and your damned rock and roll".

[root-fu.livejournal.com]

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

He needs a bigger bat.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I gotcha tough love right here: get over yourselves and STFU, you're not the worst empire that ever was as you're too much a bunch of cheapskates with an attention span a fraction of that had by a gnat to bother, but an ego the size of Aldebaran. STFU and work with the international community instead of even having your self flagellation be all about you. Snap outta it.

......

Well, you did ask.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

and it is exactly what I wanted to hear in this post. Thanks for your candid offering :)

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

A question for the speaker in the video Aaron Sorkin's author avatar (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AuthorAvatar).

If America is not the greatest country in the world, which one is? By what criteria was this judgment made?

[chron-job.livejournal.com]

That's kinda the point.

"The greatest country" is essentially meaningless without a definition of "Great" for the desired context. It typically passes undefined, because, if defined, becomes arguable, and the point of such statements is not proof or argument, but expression of tribal identity. "We are the greatest country on earth" is an enactment of a little mini-ritual like saying the lord's prayer or bowing toward Mecca.

Such mini-rituals have legitimacy if we remember what they symbolize. Such a statement looses its ritual legitimacy when it ceases to be a call to be great, and instead becomes a defense mechanism to dismiss the inconvenient proddings of our conscience and sense of civic duty.

What I take away from the rant, is that the common usage of "America is the Greatest Country in the World" has moved from the legitimate use to the illegitimate use.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Sure, but you could say it in language we don't understand. Like English.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

"We sure used to be"

No, we didn't.

[chron-job.livejournal.com]

Regaining the Golden Age is a defining characteristic of Conservatism. This statement may be Sorkin's actual thought, it may be Sorkin's attempt to engage people with a Conservative bend of mind, or it may be a non-Sorkin aspect of the actual character, Will McAvoy, who is ostensibly presented as a moderate conservative.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

I'm tired of comparing our current situation to any situation in the past, especially when nostalgia filters apply.

We need to just take what we have now, and what we know now, and make it work. That's all anyone can ever do.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

* There is an obsession with money (its presence or lack of it, or growth or decline or whathaveyou) in American culture that I can find very tiring at times. Most humans are to some extent engaged in thoughts of wealth, but the US culture has it to a huge extent.

* There is a positivism here that I sometimes feel is forced. Everything doesn't have a happy ending, or a meaning or even a clear note. Confusion, discord and sadness without ego has a place in culture..I can miss those aspects sometimes in US culture. I mean how those aspects come out in cultural expressions, in art, politics and people.

* There is, undeniably a lot of bragging. It just seems cultural too. I recently watched Swedish Master Chef, because a friend of mine was one of the finalists (and she ended up winning), and compared the experience to a similar program in the US (I watch some cooking shows, because I cook a lot myself), and oh man...what difference in how people brag in the US. I do think people here (the US) aren't douchebags in general, but there are cultural expressions that make me wince and tire.

There are things I love with the US too. I can easily make a list of that, but this is what you asked for.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

so generally...competition?

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Since you don't want any American input, I'll be watching World's Worst Tenants, set in my own backyard of Los Angeles.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Sounds like one of those MTV shows that makes one hate MTV shows.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

I'm in no position to advise, and yet...

"Never change. We need all the lulz!"

That should do, I think!

there are more non-US citizens in this community than any other

Meh, we're just way too talkative.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

yeah well I was talking about communities I personally participate in. There are over a dozen posters here that I very much respect. This is just one way to create a dialog without causing bickering over who is right and wrong about the US.

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

I haven't watched the video yet, but over the top of my head, maybe some more humility would be useful.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Humility is for the un-perfect. ;-)

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Embrace the Metric system so you can compete internationally. Otherwise USA will remain swiping debit cards while the rest of the world has chip cards.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

interesting. Is it that important the US goes metric?

[gillianinoz.livejournal.com]

Australian here. And while I know Oz isn't the greatest country in the world, from my personal viewpoint it's better than America. Why?

Medicare - free hospitals and doctors.
The Pharmaceutical Benefit Scheme - subdised meficine. Pensioners pay no more than $7.40 a prescription, and everybody else no more han $34.40.
Centrelink - Social Security that never runs out.
Unions - yeah, not always pefrect, but they are all a working person has sometimes, to keep the bastards honest.

Then there's the Ozzie scepticism when it omes to religion. There are religious people, sure, but they shut the fuck up about it and don't try to rub everybody's faces in it, or tell everybody they have to be the same.

Oh, and we have had gays in the military for years. It's no big fucking deal. No one cares. In fact we beat Israel a few times as best land army in the world.

Problems? Sure. Still have wowsers who think they have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body. We have our share of racism, from every race. Australia spends less per capita on mental health than the US does, and that scares the shit out of me. Detention Centres... Don't get me started...

Crappy history, yep, we got it. White Australia Policy, Stolen Generation, hell, Indigenous men and women didn't get the vote until 1969, can you believe that?

Difference is we don't wave flags and say dumbass things like: "Well, it may not be perfect, but it's better than anywhere else in the world.", cos you know what? Isn't.

We wave the flag on Australia Day, and most people know the first verse of the national anthem, even if they have to sing neh neh through the second verse. But we're not super patriotic.

Except at footy games. Ozzie! Ozzie! Ozzie! Oy! Oy! Oy!

[nairiporter.livejournal.com]

Neh neh is all you need to know about a national anthem anyway. They are all the same: Our great mountains, our precious sea, the forests and the lakes. We are a paradise, neh neh neh! :-)

My country's national anthem is sung in 4 out of the 11 official languages of the country. Not an easy task for a young child!

[omnot.livejournal.com]

Check your privilege. Notice that you're in the position that you are in not because you are inherently teh awesomest evaar, but because an accident of history handed a continent's worth of opportunity and wealth to a diverse heap of invaders rather later in the history of humankind than in other places.

Once you can cope with not being inherently superior, give up on your exceptionalism.

Face the fact that other countries do some things better than you do (like health care, education, democracy and even politics itself) and learn from them. Accept that the things that work in other countries really can work in Speshul America and adopt World's Best Practice in those areas.

Let go of the idea that letting money flow to the people who are best at making money keep on flowing to them is a good way to ensure that money flows fairly to all who work hard and follow the rules. It's not.

Let go of your hubris.

Don't let your military eat your economy.

Don't let the rich own your politicians.

Don't let religious beliefs overrule scientific facts.

Don't let the next generation be so undereducated.

Don't be a laughing stock.

Don't be a cautionary tale.

Don't keep on down the path to becoming a third world country.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I have said it before in this community, but I will say it again: the US is the mother of all third world countries.

[mutive.livejournal.com]

We're all in this together.

Sure, some people will always be smarter, harder working, more morally justified, whatever than others. We're not all equal (although the law *should* treat us as such). And individualism is a good thing. People should be rewarded for working hard, taking risks, playing by the rules, etc.

But no one's rich rich solely because of their smarts or work ethic. (Although those both help.) A lot of things are required - solid infrastructure, human capital (education), a government with little enough corruption that private enterprise can flourish, etc. These all work out to a functioning society. If society doesn't function, it's bad for everyone. And an awful lot of society isn't functioning, because of petty ideological differences or a refusal to see that if the US goes down - it's not just the people you dislike who are going down, it's everyone. (And yes, I count non-US citizens in this as well, at least for a very long while.)

[chron-job.livejournal.com]

Some Topical David Mitchell...