Monthly Topicz OMGZ

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

The futuristic utopian fantasies about the world development were pretty fascinating, gotta admit. But what about this one now. The topic y'all dudes & dudettes [Poll #1851066]

Comments

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I plan to save my popcorn. This should prove to be a stimulating month.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

I really liked the previous topic, tbh.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

You really enjoy walking around with a chip on your shoulder. Like American corporations, Europeans are people, too.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

DQ.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Europeans are people, too.

Citation needed.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

The man has outdone himself.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

You do, and that's all that matters.

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

I'd love to have someone convince me that governments can endlessly spend money they don't have without consequence, forever and ever, ad infinitum, amen.

Because otherwise, I think I'll just be over here in the corner, living out the rest of my life in willful ignorance writing fan fiction.

[peamasii.livejournal.com]

Apparently the US government has already spent money that no one will ever have (what is it 14 trillion and counting...), so you need to be more imaginative.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

And you seem to think I approve of that. 'Cause I don't think that's a good idea.

[peamasii.livejournal.com]

I like this analysis, it's a good read

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this. It helps a little, which is what I was looking for. Veers off a bit into ultra-libertarian free market stuff with which I agree but others here see as black magic voodoo.

At least you didn't say "because I said so!" which is the most common response around here.

I still, though, don't understand why making money out of thin air is a good thing. And the link actually talks about such fundamental change to an entire system that it would include the rest of the world, no? Not practical?

[peamasii.livejournal.com]

I think the basic libertarian argument is this (or at least it should be): any government will invariably favor some or other elite, either it's a military elite or a banking elite, etc. To the extent that the government colludes with them they maintain their power over the capital markets. This allows them to form monopolies and other control structures, in return they allow (or rather, they force*) the government to borrow endlessly through their own capital vehicles. This is part of a trickle-down method which generates profits for the top layer while inflation pressures the levels below. Consequently the accountability of the government drawing on its debt lines is eroded to the point where the game has become very transparent, and it becomes evident who the risk-takers are.

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

... and they are...?

[peamasii.livejournal.com]

Do you think it's the debt holder or the debt issuer? It seems to me the former.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

No one will ever have? The US economy produces ~$15 trillion in value every year...

[peamasii.livejournal.com]

That's true although for the total system to accelerate debt quickly is very risky.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

A very different argument, of course - "risky" vs. "incapable of being paid off."

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Ah, but for that debt to not accelerate is even riskier.

[unnamed525.livejournal.com]

If we wouldn't spend so much goddamned money on our military (which is as much as the next 13-15 countries combined), we could have more money saved up from taxes and be prepared for economic problems. Ultimately, the government can act as a bottom-up stimulus; if you employ people, you pay them. If you pay them enough, they have money to spend on things like food, clothes, entertainment, and other privately-produced goods. If they can afford such things, the people who produce them will be able to hire more people, eventually pulling the economy out of a slump. Basically, during the good times you build up a savings that allows you to cut taxes, slightly, and start government projects.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a future post brewing.

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

Aaron Sorkin says it's the next 26, 25 of whom are allies.

But that was written months ago, could have changed.

[nevermind6794.livejournal.com]

I don't think anyone actually believes that.

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

They sure spend like they do.

[nevermind6794.livejournal.com]

No, they really don't. Interest rates are lower than inflation right now; today's spending levels - or more meaningfully, today's deficit levels - don't seem to be much of an issue.

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

Yeeeesssss. Because...?

How much is "enough" spending, btw? Is there a limit? What determines that limit?

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

All evidence to the contrary.

[nevermind6794.livejournal.com]

What economists have argued that there are no consequences to "endless" deficit spending?

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

We're not talking about what economists argue but about the way governments act.

[nevermind6794.livejournal.com]

The original statement didn't say that, and there are plenty of economists employed by governments, but let's go with it. Which governments believe there will be no consequences to "endless" deficit spending?

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

It depends upon your definition of "money."

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

Are you the one posting all the money posts? I have to set aside a day and digest that. It's on my list.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Damn. I never thought I'd ever be "that guy."

Time to rethink my writing, I guess.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

No climate change?

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Taking notes.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

I like The Clash and Culture Club :D

*reads again*

Oh wait a second...