Operation Fast and Furious

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

Hey guys! Long time no post. Forgive me if this was mentioned before (I'll promptly delete it if so), but I did a cursory scan of our fine community and didn't see much mentioned about this topic/article:

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

The article makes some very interesting assertions about the whole Eric Holder/ATF controversy. First of all, the entire thing appears to be a fabrication. In fact, not only were weapons NOT supplied by the ATF to cartels as we've been led to believe, but it may be the policies of groups like the NRA that actually have led to the murders of border patrol agents and to the Mexican cartels getting armed to the teeth.

I'd like to see more info on all this, but if this turns out to be true how fast do you think the GOP will try to spin their way out of this fiasco of their own making? Will the so-called liberal media even cover this pesky possibility? Or will they continue their gutless trend of sacrificing truth on the altar of "fairness"?

Comments

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

Actually it's a similar scenario there, it's just that it appears the GOP beat the Dems to the punch. The original accusation is completely unfounded and has no proof whatsoever, whereas the actual truth of the matter seems to point out how conservative policies are actually to blame. It's not spin if it's the truth.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

Seems to be a fair bit of wriggling in order to try and disavow responsibility

It seems to entirely on if ATF has the ability to stop straw purchases preemptively.

According to the article, they don't have that kind of power.

"Someone must be held responsible!"

While what the fallout for someone being held responsible might be fluid, if people promoted legislation in order to limit the ability for the ATF to limit gun sales, track where guns are going, and not be able to preemptively stop guns from transiting into Mexico before the actual act takes place, would they be responsible for ATF not being able to perform the act of stopping guns from going there?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Jon Stewart has been relentless on this story. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/27/jon-stewart-fox-news-fast-and-furious-video_n_1630543.html)

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

It's sad that he's the only member of the media (I say that with tongue in cheek) with any real guts.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Yeah, we can't know anything about gitmo or Afghanistan or Iraq or anything concerning the Patriot Act... oh wait Obama's in office? Open the floodgates! Mwahahaha!!

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, the truth will have no bearing on how this whole thing turns out. Holder will be held in contempt, not because he's actually doing anything wrong but because it's political theater designed to damage Obama's image and help Romney. It's no different from the Clinton impeachment or the inevitable Obama impeachment (assuming Obama is reelected and the GOP holds on to the House and/or picks up the Senate).

The media will either pimp the GOP position outright (FOX) or pretend that both sides have equally reasonable positions and try to present some faux central position (everyone else). Ten years from now it'll be common knowledge that Obama was running this whole thing to try to outlaw guns (even though, oddly enough, guns will still not be banned) just as it's common knowledge that Sen. Casey was excluded from speaking at the 1992 Democratic Convention because he is anti-abortion (as opposed to being because he wouldn't support the party's candidate, Clinton, for President).

I don't think they will "try to spin their way out", they'll double down on it as evidence mounts and the media will dutifully let them get away with it.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Just like some far right types STILL believe Hillary Clinton had Vince Foster murdered.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

Do you actually know what being held in contempt of congress is? It has nothing to do with wrong doing with f&f. Holder hasn't given up the documents that congress has subpoenaed. Simple as that. He could have actually done nothing wrong with f&f and still be held in contempt.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

Quick, someone check the water well.

Based on the skirmishing, someone may have spiked this post with Haterade™

My position: typical GOP histrionics, etc yadda....

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

Damn you figured me out, me and my spiking that is. :P

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

The ATF is hobbled in its effort to stop this flow. No federal statute outlaws firearms trafficking, so agents must build cases using a patchwork of often toothless laws.

Seeing as the article opens with a blatant lie I'm going to take everything else it has to say with a kilo of salt.

But issues of truth and falsity aside, If Dodson was really a rouge, why wouldn’t the administration do politically expedient thing, come clean, fire him and move on? Sorry but this story doesn't pass the smell test.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

Few care if the article is true or not. They really don't... I mean, look at this thread.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Oh, U got U a new taggy! It's fashionable these days.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

Debunked-

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/06/27/fortune_magazine_tries_to_tell_the_truth_about_fast_and_furious_fails_miserably

Interestingly the author wa spart of the Journo-list scandal.

Just trying to swing public opinion.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Fully ready to believe you once you provide an unbiased source.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

Question: What in the article shows that ATF has an kind of ability/authority to stop people from making straw purposes until said gun passing takes place?

That seems to be a notable part of the fortune article, that the ATF outright does not have the ability to stop someone until after it takes place.

[foreverbeach.livejournal.com]

As usual, the commenters to this post are divided along (R) and (D) lines.

"Our guys = good guys, your guys = bad guys; when we do it, it is justified, when you do it, it's more corruption and lawlessness."

My theory is that mankind simply has not been out of the trees long enough to live decent lives of non-aggression and respect. Maybe in another 100,000 years or so.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

American public != "Mankind".

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Never change.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

If this article is true, Eric Holder should have no problem handing over documents related to the case. Why cause all this uproar for nothing and literally be in contempt of congress?

[foolsguinea.livejournal.com]

Wow. The prosecutors hamstrung them, the acting head of ATF threw the agent in charge under the bus, and then later it turned out their suspects were actually FBI agents infiltrating (or subverted by) the mob!

I'm sorry, I bought into the line that it was ATF's fault, but apparently it was corrupt US attorneys trying to block ATF. I had no idea. Good luck to Mr Voth.