Going topless: Y/N?

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Should women in your place be allowed to go topless in public like men?[Poll #1841725]

Personally, I'm leaning towards #3. I think women should be able to go topless at beaches, swimming pools, lakes, or other places where wearing swimsuits is normal. As soon as they step back on the street, even the promenade, they better not. This is already allowed in a number of countries around the world. It's not uncommon to see topless women sunbathing at European beaches for example (note that I'm not talking about full nudity, there are specially designated beaches for that). The first time I saw this was during a vacation in France with my parents and I was very young. While I now realize it must've been a shock for some of the American kids in our tour group, most Nordic societies have reached a point where nudity has been a non-issue for a long time. It didn't make me an impression, and in my observation it doesn't impress people from a particular group of societies at all. Same about breastfeeding in public, by the way.

I acknowledge this is largely a cultural thing, so I understand there would be diametrically opposite opinions on the subject, even from people within the same society.

Thoughts?

Comments

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

It's rarely taken advantage of, and police have a habit of thinking it's illegal when someone does do it and arresting them only to learn that they have nothing to charge them with, but it's still 100% legal in NYC.

[chantalzola.livejournal.com]

Yup. I had a roommate who went topless in NYC a lot in the summer, even to just get gas at a station.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

Just to qualify my answer in your poll a little bit.
I don't have any problem with nudity per se, but I think there are situations where it's not really fitting, if nothing else, then out of consideration for other
people's opinions and cultures. But if a country has a culture which is okay with certain amounts of undress, then there are absolutely plenty of places where it should be allowed.
And it should certainly be allowed on the same level as bare-chested men are considered normal, and not be compared to some guy dangling his wang outside of a nudist beach.
As for breastfeeding, I think it should be allowed almost all areas, and if not, then special rooms should be designated for mothers to breastfeed in private, within the same zone.

Also, I am really relieved to be from a culture where I was able to go skinny dipping with women of all ages when I was a little girl (at the women's outside cold-bathe house, by the ocean coast where I grew up). Seeing all kinds of natural bodies and having it being
nothing weird or objectified is something I'm grateful for today. Makes it easier to avoid the "only if they're supermodels, ho ho ho" kinda answers.

It can get depressing to see the amount of alienation against aging bodies in society today, particularly (but not only) female bodies that are aging. It's like, if you don't feel like having sex with it, it's not only worthless, but also disgusting or laughable.
I can't help to despise cultures that produce that kind of effect.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

This last bit is a very valid point by the way. The "Yes, but only if it's a supermodel" kind of answer is there for a reason - because it actually is a sentiment shared by many.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

What do you mean by "in your place"?

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

I was reading it as in "your geographical place" or "part of the world" sorta thing.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I don't think boobs are an imminent danger to social morality as we know it. If men can't control themselves when seeing them, they have no business being out in public anyhow. And besides, what's good for the gander.....

[jonathankorman.livejournal.com]

At the risk of sounding like a conservative for once, I would rather have local custom prevail over law on this question which is too subtle in its distinctions to capture with regulations.

What one should wear (or not wear) at a beachside restaurant is different from what one should wear at a downtown lunch spot. What one should wear (or not wear) on a sidewalk on an ordinary Tuesday afternoon is different from what one should wear on that same sidewalk during Carnaval. What one should wear on the dance floor in an underground club in Los Angeles is different from what one should wear on the dance floor of a Catskills resort. What one should wear (or not wear) on the quad at Bringham Young University is different from one one should wear on the quad at the University of California in Santa Barbara.

FWIW, here in San Francisco, the laws are unusually forgiving (http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/12/only_in_san_francisco_cops_can.php) of public nudity. (Note that the images on that link may be inappropriate for some viewing environments; consider local custom before you click.)

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I would agree with you, but I think this topic is one that brings in the question of how/when social rules and mores transition up to the legal level. After all, people flaunt the social rules all the time, like cutting in line at the supermarket or a theater. So why does one social norm get elevated to a legal issue where another one doesn't? It doesn't seem to be related to the level of harm, so what is it?

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

I picked #2 (No problem with public nudity) but have to add the caveat of only topless, I think there are some very good hygiene reasons for requiring at least some level of pants in public places

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

If you have the crabs you probably shouldn't go spreading it around in public places yes, everything within reason :p

[auntiesiannan.livejournal.com]

Sunscreen.

Have you seen how much sunscreen costs these days? I bought two medium-sized bottles of generic SPF 50 yesterday and it set me back 20 bucks! I can't imagine how much more I would go through if I started letting the girls out to play.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Just because it's legal doesn't mean you don't have a choice not to partake in it.

I kind of wish opponents of gay marriage would realize that sometimes...

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

It comes down to what is obscene.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Good, then this begs the question...

:)

[theplanfailed.livejournal.com]

I'm okay with making it legal for women to be topless in certain area's.
Swim suits are pretty skimpy these days so why not go the full monty? but just for topless.
That's why there are nudist beaches and colonies. I watched a date line show about extreme parenting and at the end there were parents who were nudist's and they and their two kids lived in a nudist camp ground in Florida. The oldest boy wore clothing most of the time though because he didn't like being nude, he only did so in the swimming pool because that's the rules. The youngest kid couldn't wait to get home from outings so he could take his clothes off. I thought it was interesting.
So - yes. I think topless is all right.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Thongs are pretty skimpy too, it's close enough to nude too, so why not bottomless also?

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

I've always been ok with nudity, as someone into art I've seen plenty a topless gal and as a gay man it doesn't really phase me anyways.

[oportet.livejournal.com]

Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but my country (USA!) as a whole would lose it's shit if this were allowed. Hell, we're still shaken up over one nipple - and without looking it up, I'm guessing that was 5 or 6 Super Bowls ago?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

And it wasn't even the nipple, the nipple was covered up.

[msretro.livejournal.com]

I live in Florida. There are already quite a few places it's legal here, or at least just accepted. This includes nudist colonies as well as a few de facto nude beaches.

It's fucking hot here. As such, it's really not uncommon to see a lot of skin. Bikini tops and shorts are not uncommon to see on people going about their daily business. I don't think removing a couple of triangles of fabric will be the downfall of civilization.

[fierceleaf.livejournal.com]

The results of every single poll on the internet proves to me that the internet is a den of sinners and heathens.

I've chosen #2.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

Absolutely.

[chron-job.livejournal.com]

There are places where it would be inappropriate for a man to go topless... these should be the same places its inappropriate for a woman.

Anywhere else, hey, what's the biggie?

There would be ogling and disruption maybe for a week or three. But after that, it would be normal.

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

I didn't vote, but will only comment thusly:

Personal opinion aside, the multitudes of senior citizens spanning the ages of 60-ish to a hundred will be proven completely correct when they would say things like "If you start doing X, it's only a matter of time before Y happens."

When people say these things, the enlightened/more liberal among us pish-posh, "oh puleese, that will NEVER happen."

Then years down the road, it DOES. Big deal or not, they are more often than not proven correct.

Which kind of makes one think: what gets pish-poshed today will probably happen down the road a few years. Making some people correct and others incorrect, today. Or maybe liars if they realize it will happen but big deal.

For what it's worth.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Yes, at one point interracial marriage was seen as both inevitable and a terrible, horrible, bad, no good thing. As was abolition of slavery, the telegraph, telephone, personal computer, cell phone, automobile, airplane, need I go on?

[korean-guy-01.livejournal.com]

I personally don't have a problem with it. I think that you have to consider the implications that this would have for things like sporting events involving male athletes (all levels) or protests, but I think that men should have the same restrictions wherever women are restricted. I don't think "they'd just have to get over it" is enough, and I don't think both spectrums could come to an agreement.

[korean-guy-01.livejournal.com]

Also, where is the "C to DD only" option? :P

[yelena-r0ssini.livejournal.com]

I often wonder when I read statements like this whether the men uttering them understand how bra measurement works.

[ameliorate.livejournal.com]

I've never understood the hate, fear, disgust over nudity.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I believe it is based on one of those Christian principles: first hate yourself, then extend that hatred to your neighbor.

[yelena-r0ssini.livejournal.com]

3 is the closest to my answer as well, because I believe that women should be allowed to go topless in any environment in which men are permitted to go topless. But I think that "no shirt, no shoes, no service" is a completely legit stance to take regarding all genders.

And since sealwhiskers mentioned it, breastfeeding is not public nudity. It's feeding a baby. And thus needs to be allowed anywhere where babies are allowed to be.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

I completely agree that it isn't nudity, I just mentioned it because sometimes it is treated that way, which I find rather fucked up.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Seriously? Supermodels???? I don't keep up, but aren't most of them skeletons that designers hang clothes on?

Personally I think the term "public nudity" is a misnomer.
Considering there is a difference between nudity and nakedness at least 90% of people who walk around with their boobs hanging out
man or woman, I would view as naked and is not exactly a treat...there is a reason restaurants require shirts. There was a great line in the book Payton Place that illustrated the difference)
OTOH there is also a difference between being naked and being nekid, the latter in the proper setting being much more fun ;).

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Depends which skeletons supermodels you have in mind. A certain group are. Most are not.

What sort of TV channels have you been watching, hmmmmm?

[muscadinegirl.livejournal.com]

I'm of two minds about it:
It would make it a lot easier for breastfeeding mothers.

On the other hand, I would hate to see being topless become more fashionable than wearing clothes; it would make it very difficult for those of us who don't have great bodies. :)

On a different note, it would be a boon for sunblock makers.

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

I live in portland, so, yes, we can.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

No one ever had a problem with those nude hot-pool swimming parties back home, so meh.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

I'm no fan of topless men unless it is VERY hot and you're near water.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Last August I moved into an apt with a few other guys. It was a big place and we'd have people over often. Until mid to late september, you could always tell who lived there by who was wearing a shirt.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

You Canadians are buncha heathens, everybody already knew that. :D