[identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
Anyone who ever watched Chris Hansen's heavily hyped Dateline NBC show To Catch a Predator is familiar with the profile of the modal sexual predator on the internet. In many respects, the internet has greatly enabled a category of abuser who had limited capabilities before the technology. While criminal statistics make it very clear that those who are most likely to abuse children sexually are those familiar to them and entrusted with their care -- parents, relatives, teachers, clergy, etc -- the classic episode of "stranger danger" becomes much more possible with the invention and dissemination of remote communication and community tools like the net. Simply put, before the internet, sexual predators who victimized strangers or bare acquaintences had to do their work at least partially in the open, risking direct observation of their activities by other adults.

To clarify this problem, I am going to use a composite predator based upon publically available court documents. Let's call him...."Phil".



In most respects, Phil fits the stereotypical internet sexual predator portrayed in Hansen's series of reports. The word "predator" in its wild and awe inspiring form does not apply:



Phil is better symbolized by THIS type of natural predator:



Grotesque, bottom feeding, using trickery and mimicry to lure in victims.

Phil's pattern is as follows: Using earlier iterations of the net, Phil infiltrated chat spaces that had been created for survivors of sexual abuse. In those spaces, he identified the most isolated and vulnerable members of the community and tried his best to earn their trust, even to the point of offering them the use of anonymous servers for posting that resulted in his gaining even more access and information about his intended victims.

Phil's machinations would lead eventually to his offering to help the invariably adolescent women in the real world, encouraging them to travel to him with offers of "sanctuary" from their abuse -- where he would try to seduce or force sexual contact with them.

Phil's activities were relatively well-shielded in the spaces where he operated because the chat spaces were mainly venues with which he could initiate contact -- the most manipulative behavior happened outside of the view of most members. Phil was eventually caught luring a teen ager across state lines FOR A SECOND TIME and was sentenced to a very short prison term. Upon release, he resumed his online activities and was caught again and sentenced to a much longer term. Upon release from that prison term, we can only assume that he will head directly back to the internet.

And here is the rub: Predators like Phil do not stop. Ever. When pedophiles operate in meat space to lure prepubescent children into sexual assault and rape, conditions of their release restrict their activities and contact with children. For example, it would not be uncommon for a child rapist to be forbidden to be within a 1000 feet a school or playground, even if that meant that he could not shop at a wide variety of stores that are adjacent to those spaces. Electronic monitoring makes it possible to know when they violate those conditions.

Phil is not a pedophile, per se. His victim patterns tilt towards Ephebophilia and Hebephilia with a specialization towards seeking out the emotionally vulnerable in those populations. His criminal behavior involves custodial interference of his victims as well as sexual assault and rape. His reasons for this are, obviously, open for debate. As Chris Hansen's show demonstrates, these serial sexual pradtors are not typically suave, sophisticated or, perhaps even, capable of healthy romantic relationships with women of their own age and circumstances. They seek out younger, easy to manipulate victims in many respects because it is the only way that they can feel powerful, mature and capable. And they keep doing it.

So my question is about how to THWART the Phil's of the internet because it seems impossible to do so while he has ACCESS to the internet. Courts routinely impose restrictions on internet activities for people paroled or released from incarceration for such crimes, but we all know that hacking and cracking remain several steps ahead of authorities so giving a predator ANY access to the internet is an invitation to thwart restrictions from chat, blogging or social media sites -- even though we KNOW that people like Phil are enabled far beyond their natural ability to harm by access.

Can we develop better ways to monitor, restrict and thwart such predators? Can we attach devices to their computers that will short out their motherboards when they go from shopping for Hello Kitty gear on Amazon to Facebook? I'd personally favor attaching an electroshock device to their genitals, but I'm mean.

Alternately, we could realize and acknowledge the actual threat these people represent, release half a million petty drug possession offenders from jail and keep Phil in prison for 25 to life.

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Date: 20/5/12 13:46 (UTC)
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Date: 20/5/12 15:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com
Not really, what makes it so timely?
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Date: 20/5/12 13:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blue-mangos.livejournal.com
And yes, the only answer is to start taking sex crimes more seriously and imposing longer sentences upon offenders. It is insulting the short sentences given, if any jail time is sentenced at all, especially in comparison to drug charges.

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Date: 20/5/12 14:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nairiporter.livejournal.com
I don't know about attaching special devices to their computers. They could always go visit a friend and do this from their computer, or simply go to a web-cafe or an internet-club or a library and still do it.

But we could be more vigilant and as soon as we recognise sexual predators, to expose them, provide maximum pushback, hand them over to the authorities along with all the evidence we have at our disposal, and make sure justice does its job properly. Society could be more proactive about this, that's for sure. Because this is potentially one of the most serious offenses with a long-term effect on the victims.

Anyone who has a child would understand what I am talking about.

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Date: 20/5/12 14:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
Probably evil of this sort cannot be ever completely uprooted as it'll always be sure to find new ways out. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying.

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Date: 20/5/12 14:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oslo.livejournal.com
Obviously, what we should do is commit them to clinical institutions, without due process, for the rest of their natural lives.

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Date: 20/5/12 14:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
The without due process makes me feel you're being cyncial. There should always be due process. However the fact is that people just don't get over this. I'm not in it for punishment, but they can do real permanent damage to lots of people's lives. Permanent damage that is carried over to the next generations too. Its extremely harmful to a society.

Would you rather let them out, permanently mess up people's lives, and send them back to a terrible life in prison over and over? I don't want to permanently imprison them, but they're never going to function harmlessly in society.

Think about it this way, someone murders a cop, they get sent to jail for like elebenty lifetimes. Someone commits murder they're often in for life. I don't think I'm being harsh if a person who has a proven instinct towards sexual predatory behavior has to meet some sort of middle ground between freedom and supervision.
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Date: 20/5/12 14:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
Something like the Anders Breivik case.

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Date: 20/5/12 14:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] muscadinegirl.livejournal.com
I'd personally favor attaching an electroshock device to their genitals, but I'm mean.

I must be just as mean as you are. :)

I wish we could give them a sub-dermal chip that interferes with any attempt to access the Internet from any computer they try to use. Is such a thing even possible?

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Date: 20/5/12 14:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blue-mangos.livejournal.com
Unfortunately they'd just find other ways to lure their victims. the internet has just made it easier, it's not new behaviour.

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Date: 20/5/12 15:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
But what about critical thinking? I'm sure those poor innocent souls who commit all those... umm, "minor" acts, are doing it out of good intentions for their victims. Trying to help them in some way, so to speak. It's beyond me how come they're just so misunderstood by the world at large. They must have their side to present too. They should be heard too, no?

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Date: 20/5/12 16:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sealwhiskers.livejournal.com
This is unfortunately the pathology of how most such individuals think. Much like narcissists.

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Date: 20/5/12 15:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] airiefairie.livejournal.com
I am usually a peaceful person, but if such a predator approaches any one of my children, I am finding a gun and putting a bullet through their brain. That would thwart them.
I am ready to spend the rest of my life behind bars because of this, and I have never been more serious.
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Date: 20/5/12 16:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
My thinking with this kind of thing always goes towards one of the main reasons I often don't like the idea of the death penalty, whenever a harsh penalty is made it can be imposed on the falsely accused out there.

On one hand I can totally understand protecting our children from harm, but in the wake of the pedo-hunt craze not too long ago I wonder if anyone else ever felt like there was people out there ready to point that accusing finger at you? Particularly, being a gay male usually involves running into people that still believe that all homosexuals are child predators. It's always such a hard thing to deal with when you run into someone that, if they ever found out you were gay, would treat you like this.

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Date: 20/5/12 16:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oportet.livejournal.com
People under house arrest have to wear those ankle bracelets. If you don't want someone near a computer, you could make them wear extremely powerful magnets on their hands, as long as that isn't a myth (I'm really not sure).

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Date: 21/5/12 08:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
I don't think that works with solid state HDDs, I could be wrong though.

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Date: 20/5/12 16:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sealwhiskers.livejournal.com
I really think that this is one of the worst type of crimes possible to make, seeking out young people with a problematic past, and
making yourself important to them, even in a passive sense, in order to further that kind of certain agenda. Let me just state that clearly.

But I also think that there *must* be a place in society for people who have committed horrible acts. Or gotten sentenced for committing them and taken their punishment.

If we exclude and continue to punish, we, as citizens in a democratic society may do the wrong thing, or we may do the right thing in the wrong way. This is why we have the law, because
the law should be bigger than our feelings. (I say should, since the law has several shortcomings when interpreted sometimes)

There is no proof that rehabilitation doesn't work, first of all. In some cases there are strong indications that it does. *But*, the offender must be willing.
There is also the slim risk/chance that the offender is innocent. Our stance against child abusers today is very firm, and it's a fantastically good thing, but if it gets too emotionally driven,
it can turn into witch hunts easily. Back in the real witch hunting times, children were often put forward as witnesses, and they lied to put the women on the pyre, because it got them importance and a spotlight, in
a setting where they sorely lacked that otherwise. Children are not adults and don't have our emotional filters, and especially the already damaged ones, do lie.

For *all* our sakes, it is important to keep a clear head in cases like abuse of all kinds. t_p is a good analogy for society in some cases, and in our type of society, there is a certain vigilance already.
This could and should be put to use to protect those that need it, but not until there are signs of wrongdoing.

As for your more serious questions, which I find interesting and thoughtworthy. I think it's long past the time where people realize that internet isn't this big old happy free zone that is safe. Internet crimes happen every day,
and as you've pointed out, some crimes start to emerge on the net, which only existed out in real life before. I do think that denied access to certain specific sites isn't a bad idea at all, and I also think that many types of sites
perhaps need to realize that moderating, even if mostly silent and watching is needed, because shit really *does* happen.

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Date: 20/5/12 17:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Criminals should be handed justice, period. In regular court, in the presence of hard, undeniable evidence, as opposed to presumptions and rumors. Not in the court of public opinion, where the risk is of effectively organizing witch-hunts and public lynchings based on whether the majority "likes" something/somebody or not.

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Date: 21/5/12 00:40 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
That was my stance.

Hopefully the mob doesn't attack it.

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Date: 20/5/12 17:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theplanfailed.livejournal.com
Educate our children and monitor their Internet use. If a parent see's something even remotely weird or dangerous they need to take action.

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Date: 20/5/12 18:02 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
generally it's the vulnerable kids who have bad family situations that are targeted.

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Date: 20/5/12 17:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eracerhead.livejournal.com
The US has an abyssmal record when it comes to laws involving sexual activity. Either it's nothing or way overkill.
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Date: 20/5/12 18:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sealwhiskers.livejournal.com
I suggest you read the community rules.

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Date: 20/5/12 18:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
release half a million petty drug possession offenders from jail and keep Phil in prison for 25 to life.

I'd certainly be in favor of the former and we can discuss the numbers and gradation of the latter.

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Date: 21/5/12 05:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
I personally think that people like Phil are mentally ill and need treatment. But then again, I'm opposed to prisons in general.

I also think that some serious mental health treatment would lead to a better chance of rehabilitation.

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From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com - Date: 21/5/12 16:50 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 20/5/12 19:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
I have no problem utilizing due process to make rape a lifetime prison sentence.

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Date: 21/5/12 16:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I hope it is a different Phil. I would hate to see a horse lover behind bars.

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From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com - Date: 22/5/12 13:47 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 21/5/12 00:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] speciesofspaces.livejournal.com
I wish for treatment. But that may not be possible for an individual who resists it. Sad, sad, sad.

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Date: 21/5/12 01:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] speciesofspaces.livejournal.com
PS - We can prevent Phils in the first place by having strong laws against child abuse.

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Date: 21/5/12 01:02 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] onefatmusicnerd.livejournal.com
What of their potential contributions in more seemly fields?

I only ask this, because one of my favorite authors killed his wife in a horrible display of childishness. I would absolutely have advocated for perpetual incarceration or, had he done that to a close relative, considered murder as revenge and protection for others.

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Date: 21/5/12 08:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
Some of you may want to take a look (http://www.vnews.com/sexcrimes/recidivism.htm)

Most pedophiles who abuse a family member don't do so again (under 10%). Most pedophiles are people who abuse family members. Ergo, most pedophiles don't reoffend. The numbers drop even more if you add treatment into the equation.

I'm not saying they're not bad people, just that most people in this post have their facts wrong.

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Date: 24/5/12 21:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
Well said. All of it.

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