Obama is up to his Chen: a blind date gone horribly wrong

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

From an opinion piece Did Obama betray a Chinese Hero? 

I am sure most of you have been following the story of Chen Guangcheng, the blind Chinese activist served up as the current victim du jour in the Human Rights Wars™.


Um, sorry sir, this is not the Chen we are talking about

Here is the basic liberal's point:
Frankly, I was not surprised that the US would turn him over to the Chinese and then lie about him wanting to go back. After all, the ChiComs practically own us. Who wants to piss off the Landlord?
Obama has forgotten his grass roots as an activist. He now plays with his children on a well manicured lawn.
I am too old to learn Mandarin. Our hearts bleed! We are the 99, etc...

Conservatives: Let's look at the reality.  We had Chen, but had no way to get his family.  Chen probably asked about that, and the embassy staff probably told him the truth--that his family was on its own, that there was little the US could do about them.  Chen made the decision to leave to reunite with his family--and once he left the embassy, he was on his own.  I'm not sure what promises the embassy staff could have made about keeping him safe if he left--US authority ends at the embassy gate, and you can bet that China told any embassy staff to get the hell out even if they did accompany Chen to the hospital.  I'm also not sure what exactly Chen thought the embassy staff /could/ do once he left the grounds--as an educated man he must know as well as anyone how little power the US officials would have had once they were back on Chinese soil.

Bottom line: Chen had a chance to escape, but it would have meant leaving his family.  He made his choice, and now he has to accept the consequences.  It sucks, but there is precious little the US can do about it except keep asking nicely for China to do the right thing. 

The bigger issue here is that we are allies--or at least do business--with countries that do this to their citizens.  Short of military action or severing all ties--neither of which we're going to do for one man and his family--there is nothing we can do that's not already being done.  All we can do is say "please."  That doesn't make us weak--that's just acknowledging that we can't do whatever the hell we want in someone else's country, no matter what we think of how they run things.[random comment]

Should the POTUS personally apologize to the Chinese government for giving a blind guy some shelter? Or should we give him and his family a ride to The Land of The Free™ on Hillary's jetplane? What did we do anyway that deserves a forced bow to Zog?



This is Chin Chin. It has nothing to do with this post.
cross posted from conservatalk at the suggestion of a person I really respect.

Comments

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Not very sure what most people in the US make of the whole situation - should "we" protect an activist for democracy and turn a blind eye to all the other stuff that China does to its people? Or should "we" pressure the Chinese more to change? And how possible is that to be stimulated from abroad? Wouldn't the response be rather the opposite to what we're expecting?

China is evil in so many ways, and yet Realpolitik says that meanwhile they hold a large chunk of the US debt, and they've got the ability to keep North Korea on a short leash. So what, now?

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

So now we sit back and bow down.

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

Maybe we should look at the bigger picture to understand separate cases like this one. I often hear the exclamation over blogs and forums these days, "But why are we still buying stuff from these Chinese?" It is a call for boycott, which is very noble, but let us face the realities. That kind of approach might have been possible against the apartheid regime in South Africa, but now this is China. A totally different animal.

The economic realities dictate that the West, especially America, has economic interest to keep buying stuff from China. It cannot afford not to. Having in mind China's relative advantage in some areas, the American consumers benefit from a larger choice and lower prices, and if America interrupted its economic and political relations with China, the markets would suffer greatly. Which in these turbulent times is the last thing anyone wants.

So America will have to kiss some butts in this case, and in many more in the future, I am afraid. Regardless of who is the president and which party is in power. These are the realities. And whoever tries to score political points during the elections by flaming anti-Chinese rhetoric, do not believe them. They do not mean it. They would instantly turn the other side of the record, the moment they are elected.

That said, it is in America's interest in the broader sense to maintain a constructive relationship with China, keeping in mind the big differences that exist between the two societies. China is a big regional power, now turning into a global power. We could call it a "returning" power if we look more broadly. Any attempts to contain it would be useless because of China's various inernational relationships. Such attempts would only create risks of building another confrontation like that from the Cold War. And that is a dangerous scenario, especially if China's power continues to increase while America's is slowly waning with the emergence of a multi-polar world.

But all of this does not mean that America and the West as a whole shouldn't continue to press China to improve its human rights record. Using diplomatic channels, while keeping its commitments to the Asian allies. A Ron Paul sort of withdrawal from the current American alliances would have devastating effects on many levels. While we cannot reasonably expect China to magically transform into a liberal Western style democracy, given its history, culture and traditions, still it is not impossible to persist on the more realistic goals that are more achievable. Like improving its human rights and respecting the interests of its neighbours. What is needed to help these goals is a constructive relationship with China, plus preserving the Asian alliances. Going for the escalation and confrontation serves no purpose.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Realpolitik is intricate biz!

[foolsguinea.livejournal.com]

The West doesn't really have to buy anything from China, though. It's our own corporations who have decided to outsource production to China's cheap labor force, so they can keep a greater share of revenues in the hands of owners and designers. We only "buy things from China" in such quantity because we hold both Chinese and labor in similar contempt.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Not really. Most consumer goods would cost significantly more if made in America. It's not because of contempt for labor and for China, it's because Wal-Mart demands that you either make do with a razor-thin margin, or slash costs.

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

Curiously, there is a reversed process (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_162-28241175/the-flip-side-china-outsourcing-to-the-us/) going on now - China outsourcing some investments back to America.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

I can't imagine the Chinese who would threaten to beat his family would honor promises that no harm would come to him later (if that's true, then why not him just leave?). The Chinese seem pretty vindictive to me from their past history with dissent. If the State Dept truly betrayed Chin Guangcheng, how fucking sad.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

I'm honestly not sure I know enough about this. I heard one report that said that he asked to leave the embassy, another one that said the US forced him out. If the second one is true, I would have preferred that we give him asylum when he asked for it. Yes, China owns a lot of our debt, but that works both ways. We're not utterly powerless against them. The Chinese are pragmatic to a fault; we could have worked something out with them to get his family.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping to get a more solid report on this, too.

That said, if conservatives use this as a cudgel against Obama, I'm going to have to laugh, considering how they appear to generally loathe the idea of someone being able to become part of America simply by getting inside.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Give Mitt a few seconds to shake that Etch-A-Sketch, yo.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

There's a huge difference etween someone wanting to become an American because their govt sucks versus their govt trying to kill or hurt them.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

So you'd be cool with a couple thousand Chinese showing up each year claiming that.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

it works for the cubans. Sort of. You'd think being inside the 12 mile limit would be enough.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Except when they're Iraqis and the government trying to kill them is our occupation-backed government. In which case we just let the sand niggers die.

[dv8nation.livejournal.com]

Anyone who calls China the landlord clearly doesn't see the whole picture. Sure, China controls a lot of US debt. They also need us more than we need them. Frankly, I think China could us a poke to remind them that we don't like their style of oppressing activists.

Ours is clearly much better.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

It would strike me as an unsustainable program wherein US Embassies become goalie zones where the precedent is set that simply getting there means you get to go to America. I mean, we do it with Cuba and if you make landfall in Florida, you get to stay. But every embassy in the world? Every person who wants to get to America? Touch goal and you're in? I don't think this situation has any good outcomes either way.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

But that's what embassies are -- part of america. Legally.

[dv8nation.livejournal.com]

Yep. IIRC people have been able to get to the US after seeking shelter at embassies. And that's not a bad thing. The same trick saved a group of Americans who took shelter at the Canadian embassy after the revolution in Iran in 1979.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Interesting. So we could not engage in extraordinary rendition to get this man's family out for what reason? It sure ain't respecting the rights of foreigners to run their country as they see fit.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

I think we should have a parade, watch a rerun of "Yankee Doodle Dandy", go to war with China, and spend countless lives - over decades - to save the Chinese guy. Or, the President could face East, bow deeply at the waist, and express how sorry we are that we allowed the blind guy in our embassy. Either of these choices (or any other) will draw the condemnation of conservatives, so from an election year standpoint it doesn't really matter.

[caerfrli.livejournal.com]

I don't think we've got nearly the whole picture here. A lot of odds and loose ends. Could he be a plant?

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

No.

I'm fairly certain he is a Chin

meanwhile here is a picture of a Plant with ice cream on his Chin.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Dies....twice!

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

Call us when you have some kind of proof of that claim.

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

Claim? Why I got me a DEED to this here mine, there ain't no claims involved here!

and..whatcher number, sonny?