[identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
Congressional scholars Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein are no strangers to D.C. politics. The two of them have been in Washington for more than 40 years — and they're renowned for their carefully nonpartisan positions.

But now, they say, Congress is more dysfunctional than it has been since the Civil War, and they aren't hesitating to point a finger at who they think is to blame.

"One of the two major parties, the Republican Party, has become an insurgent outlier — ideologically extreme; contemptuous of the inherited social and economic policy regime; scornful of compromise; unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition," they write in their new book, Even Worse Than It Looks.


Interview at NPR.org

This is something that I've been saying for quite some time, both here and elsewhere. The Democrats are craven, inauthentic, and arrogant -- but the GOP is something else entirely. And not only has the GOP become a party of plugging their ears and yelling "lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala, I can't hear you!" when it comes to things like climate change, immigration and revenue, the media has also broken faith with the electorate by refusing to stand up and say "hey, this isn't right," but instead tries to play "fair and balanced" by suggesting that any point of view, no matter how stupid, no matter how untrue, deserves to be heard.

When the GOP isn't even willing to try to come up with rationales for their positions other than "we want to make Obama look bad", even when that's to the point of refusing to support republican plans that Obama supports because that might make Obama look GOOD, you don't have two parties of government, you have one party and one small child, refusing to do anything, and holding their breath till they turn blue in the face.

How can this be considered responsible governance? Well, it can't, I suppose. When Ronald Reagan is held up as your example of recognizing that, for example, you can't increase spending without increasing revenue, and you can't cut spending on the backs of the poor and the middle class, and yet the GOP even holds up a fictional version of him as their patron saint, where do you go from there? HOW can you go anywhere from there?

Until we have a media that's willing to stand up and say "this is wrong," until we have buy in for actual governance, there's no stopping gridlock. The GOP has to recognize that there's an actual job to be done here, and it can't simply be cut. But that's not on their litmus test, so we just sit and wait for something that may never happen.
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Date: 30/4/12 16:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
Repealing Obamacare is proactive.

The Ryan budget is proactive.

Cut, Cap, and Balance is proactive.

The Republicans are trying to do something. You just don't want to recognize it, lest it implode your argument.

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Date: 30/4/12 17:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com
Corruption is inherent in the political system.

Does that include giant corporations? Because it is power itself that corrupts, no? It's not just formal governments, but any entity that exercises power.
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Date: 30/4/12 21:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
Stop being rational. ;)

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Date: 30/4/12 21:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Well, ironically, that describes the GOP Congress of the 1860s, what with the main domestic policy being to send huge armies to burn down major swathes of the South when the Southern Democrats deliberately sabotaged the last national institution left.
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Date: 1/5/12 05:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
Corruption is inherent in the political system.

I fail to see how a) It's inherent and b) Why this is just cause to do away with the system entirely.

Confirmation bias is a beautiful thing

Date: 30/4/12 16:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
I was tipped off to this point of view from their WaPo editorial (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html). I haven't read the book yet, so I'm going to refrain from commenting on that, but let's just go with the basic POV outlined above: "The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition."

The reason I find this empty and hollow? Because there isn't any real argument for the GOP being any different than the Democrats in this case. They harp on Allen West's stupid comment about there being 80 Communists in Congress, but saw no need to care about the lack of condemnation from top Democrats about the unpatriotic Republicans, the calls of "fascist" and "racist" and the like. Maybe they highlight them in the book. They certainly didn't care to highlight them here. They call the Republicans "unmoved by...science," but don't care about how piss poor general Democratic belief is (http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2011-09-20/gop-democrats-science-evolution-vaccine/50482856/1) on science issues either. They're blame the Republicans for being dismissive about the "legitimacy of its political opposition" while ignoring 8 years of having to hear about how Bush supposedly stole the election. I recall Evan Bayh's remarks after we elected Scott Brown up here: "Whenever you have just the furthest left elements in the Democratic Party attempting to impose their will on the rest of the country, that’s not going to work too well." That might tell us something about the "value" of bipartisanship and compromise when the proposals are so far off the beaten path that even the Democratic Party is loathe to touch them. Or maybe Geithner's comments on addressing the debt: "You are right to say we’re not coming before you today to say ‘we have a definitive solution to that long term problem.’ What we do know is, we don’t like yours." Very productive. Very bipartisan. I'm sure these points of view have no relationship whatsoever with the continued extinction of moderate Democrats in Congress.

I can go on and on, but it will fall on deaf ears. For those who actually subscribe to this lunacy, your mind has already been made, and now you're happy that a handful of academics is giving this fringe, ridiculous, ideologically-motivated nonsense some credibility. Congrats to you on that. For the rest of us, though, I think we can recognize that the parties have good and bad aspects on both sides, and can condemn that without having to play this sort of game. Meanwhile, liberal Democrats, have fun with the continuing Blue Dog purge.
From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com
in other words, two wrongs make a right, therefore anything is on the table?

Are you...serious? Your defense is to blame Democrats?

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Date: 30/4/12 21:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
You do realize what happened the last time Republicans hopped on the witch-hunting bandwagon looking for the Red under the Bed when Democrats were the ones that were actually leading the bleeding and dying against real enemies, not the politically motivated type? Of course the GOP didn't give a fuck about the real Communists, that would have meant problems of substance be handled, which it didn't have any ideas or concepts of substance to offer in the first place, especially since they had advocated the defense cuts that made Korea such a pain in the ass to start with, when they weren't kissing fascist ass in the WWII era and claiming the USA should have become isolationist and let the USSR paint the world Red.

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Date: 1/5/12 04:08 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] politikitty.livejournal.com
Would it be good politics if each party was so ideologically pure, no policy could be passed?

I have bemoaned the fact that both parties have moved to the fringe, leading to the most polarized Congress in over 100 years.

The point of Congress is to govern. Since Republicans signed the Contract with America, they have increasingly refused to move on that point. And yes, Democrats have had their share of stonewalling.

But that doesn't change the fact that it needs to stop. It needed to stop yesterday. If we keep going down this road, China will call in our debt because we can't function. What you or I want for America doesn't matter worth shit. It's what a consensus of Americans want for America. And that means working with people you disagree with, and making decisions that are not your first choice.

Your decision on policy can't be "Everyone else compromise with me".

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Date: 30/4/12 17:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
I suppose well be seeing talking points till November. Your obstructionism is my halting bad policy.

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Date: 30/4/12 20:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
Bad policy = Things we used to support until a Democrat was put in charge.

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Date: 1/5/12 04:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] politikitty.livejournal.com
It is not possible to stonewall America into good policy.

The consequences of such action would destroy this country before we got around to trying your libertarian fantasy.

Congress is supposed to govern. Proposing a bill, and then deciding not to vote for your own bill because the other party would take the credit is not governing.

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Date: 30/4/12 17:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
During the zenith of Senator Joe McCarthy's campaign to purge "undesirables" from government, Eisenhower commented that McCarthy was the most anti-American person in the country. The current antics of the radical Right reflect the same kind of despotism. These people do not want to live in freedom. They prefer trying to subjugate the rest of the country to their own agenda.

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Date: 30/4/12 21:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
The irony is that the OP is essentially calling for a purge of the undesirable Republicans from government.

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Date: 30/4/12 17:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com
"...scornful of compromise" is what ticks me off. While both sides are guilty of it, the Republicans are certainly working to monopolize it. Evidence: the Democrats don't require members to sign pledges that they will NEVER do such and such. The Republicans make a habit of it.

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Date: 30/4/12 21:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Um, Congress during the Civil War got more stuff done in four years than it did in the decades before or after. Having a much smaller pool of Congresscritters broke a lot of deadlocks. I think that should have been the Congress *before* the war. If I were inclined to let my Southernness speak before my Americanness, I'd note the GOP was the cause of the 1850s breakdown, too, but that would just be spiteful.

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Date: 30/4/12 22:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dv8nation.livejournal.com
Hhhmmm, just ignore the congressmen from the South?

Okay, I like this plan! Screw you, Mississippi! Your state has a terrible academic record! No one cares what you think!

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Date: 1/5/12 05:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
There seems to be a trend of disillusionment with the Republican party, from their inability to enact change despite their victories in 2010 to the lackluster nomination of Bob D- I mean Mitt Romney.

I remember once that Republicans tried to pass some ridiculous reform as a political gesture, not really meaning it because actually passing it would be devastating for them politically, just trying to put something forward and go "See! We're trying! It's the Democrats' fault we can't get anything done!" and Democrats trolled them by voting yes or present on it, I can't remember, which caused the Republicans to scramble and start voting no.

edit: I'm not sure this is the one I'm referring to specifically, but here you go: http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/house_gop_almost_votes_for_radical_budget

I would paste the relevant portions but you should really read the whole thing. It's hilarious.

The Ryan Plan reminds me of this tactic.
Edited Date: 1/5/12 05:42 (UTC)

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