Obama or Santorum?

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Let's, for the sake of argument, agree that Rick Santorum had the "n" word floating thru his head, for whatever reason; and it almost slipped out. And...?
People who think he is a closet racist have more ammunition, they weren't voting for him anyway. Personally, I haven't liked him for quite a while and I'm a conservative.
My problem with the whole kerfluffle is the activity it's getting (at least on this forum) compared to the President's "flexibility" remark: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/9167332/Barack-Obama-microphone-gaffe-Ill-have-more-flexibility-after-election.html.

I understand, in context, that there can be many interpretations, depending on one's political view. I think the thing that bothered me more than the actual words, was the President leaning over, patting Medeved's hand, in a "reassuring" manner. Since, this was about missile defense, I confess this bothers me a great deal more than the possibility that a primary candidate, highly unlikely to win the nomination might have almost said the "n" word.

Are my priorities in the wrong place?

(note this was edited to change a their for there, I wish to thank thank all of you who avoided commenting that I used the wrong word)

Comments

[michael barnett (from livejournal.com)]

I think the reason it's important is that it plays into the storyline (the validity of which I'm not passing judgment on) that Republicans are racists, generally, whether or not they're conscious of the fact that they are. The Republicans don't help their own cause in this respect when they promote policies like the War on Drugs, think that the resulting catastrophic increase of crime can be solved by locking up large quantities of black males in prisons (which are more and more becoming collusive enterprises between the private sector and the state, enriching the former as prison populations increase), or when they slip up and start to say "nigger".

That is why this is an issue.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

I think the reason it's important is that it plays into the storyline (the validity of which I'm not passing judgment on) that Republicans are racists, generally, whether or not they're conscious of the fact that they are. -- What‽ Who are you or anyone else to say what lies in someone's conscious?

I guess then that Democrats don't have any right to be upset if someone where to say that they're immoral pedophiles, generally, whether or not they're conscious of the fact they are.

Let's not forget that Republicans pushed for passage of the first five CRA's, which granted rights to minorities and gave them voting rights while Democrats formed the KKK and fought against any kind of humane treatment for those with a different skin color. The Republican party itself was founded by those against slavery.

JFC, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about, Michael.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

I think the difference is that Obama's was arguable only if you disagree with his stance on missile defense (which is a reasonable position to take) and Santorum's was objectionable if you are not a racist (racism being about the epitome of an unreasonable position). This is why the Santorum controversy is about whether he said it or not, and the Obama controversy is about what it means for policy.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Which is actually my point, which should we be discussing :D

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

'I think the difference is that Obama's was arguable only if you disagree with his stance on missile defense (which is a reasonable position to take)'

I disagree. I think the term you're looking for is "excusable". It's not arguable to me that he's looking to subvert the current US position on missile defense.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Yes, your priorities are in the wrong place.

Santorum - even if he eventually isnt the nominee (very likely he wont be), represents a sizeable section of the GOP.
Santorum also has influence in shaping arguments and public opinion

and finally, if we decide racism "isnt important" simply because it's not apparent at the very tip-top level
than basically it's saying 'I dont SEE the racism, therefore there is no reason to address it'

which plays into the excuse of saying it doesnt "really" exist because you (figurative "you") dont see it anymore (the "out of sight, out of mind" syndrome).

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

*sigh* You are implying that the sizable section of GOP that supports Santorum is racist, I disagree.

I never began to imply that racism is not important. We could argue all day just how wide spread it is, and probably not agree.

Racism IS; bigotry bothers me more.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

People who bill themselves as liberals tend to lean too hard into their beliefs. Not that conservatives don't do it but people who describe themselves as liberals tend to do so with a certain zeal that goes against logic (re: Anthony Weiner photo scandal)

They believe Obama wasn't trying to make a secret pact to delay action till after the election. While they believe Santorum is a racist.

So a stammer is proof Santorum is racist but a clearly made and explicit deal to delay an issue till after an election so as to give more to Russia in the deal is "inconclusive".

I blame it on the belief of their own intellectual superiority. No need to logically detail an argument when you're smart. Exact words don't matter. Actual facts which counter supposition just get brushed away.

I know a lot of the more liberal people will hate hearing that but that's how it tends to be. Flame away.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

They believe Obama wasn't trying to make a secret pact to delay action till after the election. While they believe Santorum is a racist.

What "secret pact"? He may not have known the mic was on but they were in a room full of people, do you honestly think he was certain nobody could hear him?

He was pointing out to Medvedev that the US wasn't going to be able to get anything done on this issue until after the election, because as I said elsewhere it's currently the Stupid Season, and that they shouldn't read anything into our inaction other than that it is an inevitable consequence of American politics.

but a clearly made and explicit deal to delay an issue till after an election so as to give more to Russia in the deal is "inconclusive".

Presidents put off important issues til after the election all the time. It's an accepted thing. It only appears to be a problem now that Obama's doing it (as I said elsewhere, this is a theme lately).

[weswilson]

The disconnect comes from the preposterous notion that a president never has to change his behavior because of what's going on in the political landscape. OF COURSE a president has to act more cautiously in an election year. The fact that he fessed up to it on camera changes no one's real opinion of how presidents behave. It merely allows those who don't like the president to prance about with their faux-incredulity waving around like a gymnastics ribbon

Can conservatives say that about Santorum's slip? Is it known to all conservatives that a presidential candidate uses the N-word when describing the president? Has the fact that he slipped up changed no-one's opinion about the way Santorum speaks about Obama? And while the prancing liberals still have their incredulity on display, I suspect that few really ever suspected Santorum was enough of a racist to use those kinds of words.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Hmm, using words like preposterous and all caps for OF COURSE, attacking a supposition I didn't make, doesn't lend itself to a reasonable discussion in my mind, however you did make a reasonable point.

I specifically noted that it was his "body language" that bothered me much more than what he said.

The more I think about it, the more I am curious as to why a President has to change his behavior. Unless he is planning to push thru things that he thinks the majority of the electorate would disagree with.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

Are my priorities in the wrong place?

Yes

Number one, Santorum's comments are more serious because they could actually hurt him in the election. Sometimes it's hard to believe but there are plenty of Republican voters who aren't racists. They will be angry that he used that word. Most Democrats on the other hand probably don't think we should be antagonizing Russia on such a petty issue and certainly don't think there's anything wrong with Obama stating a clear fact that anyone who follows politics knows.

There's a reason they call this the Stupid Season. Even in more bipartisan days, it became harder and harder to do anything of substance this close to a Presidential election since both parties are trying at this point to play to their bases. That's made even worse by the fact that the GOP has been operating in this way for Obama's entire term and it's hard to get anything past them in Congress (even basic stuff, certainly not major strategic legislation).

Anyone who is paying attention knows Obama will not be able to get any missile defense bill passed, even one that integrates much of the GOP agenda (because it will suddenly go from being something Republicans support to being something Republicans hate the second Obama puts his name on it just like the individual mandate). As always, once the election ends, Obama will have a clearer path to getting something done.

It makes me angry sometimes to see how in the age of Obama, things that were once seen as obvious or largely traditional get mentioned on Fox News like they're some sort of monumental slight against the country by the President. Nobody batted an eyelash when Presidents used teleprompters or other visual aids until Obama did it. Nobody got bent out of shape when a President mentioned, even in public, that the period before a Presidential election was a bad time to get anything important done. Somehow Fox News managed to contain itself when Bush kissed a Saudi Prince but when Obama bows to one it's an outrage. I wish conservatives would be more serious, because it would be nice to have an honest debate in this country. Sadly, they seem to get outraged just for the sake of outrage and this is a prime example of that.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Excellent reply to my question, thank you. Of course I disagree with most of it :)

You watch way too much Fox News, it can't be good for you ;)

[oportet.livejournal.com]

I don't think Obama's gaffe hurts him any. It could even be arugued that was planned, even if it is just wishful thinking to believe the leader of your country would watch what he says in a room full of cameras, sound amplifying equipment, and recording devices.

Santorum was a syllable away from his political career being over.

Both gaffes show a great deal of confidence, but only one of those guys should have that at this point.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Oh I got a sinking feeling Willard will name Rick his VP pick.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Since the missile shield isn't for/against Russia, reassuring Russia that it isn't for/against them would seem to make a lot of sense. Then again, I suppose if your dead set on antagonizing everyone that isn't the UK, this must mean the President is betraying American to the communists again, just like Carter!

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Since Russia has been complaining about it for years, why use the word flexibility for reassurance?

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

To be fair I didnt expect santorums comment to sway you anyways.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

I've heard Santorum on a number of Talk shows I listen to, and I just don't like the man.
I haven't heard his "slip" but one time, I didn't figure it was worth the trouble to really care.

I am pretty sure any comments I may have made in a thread discussing it were on what was BEING said as opposed to what HE may or may not have said.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Highly unlikely to win a nomination? Wasn't he in the lead up to this point.

And I'm not seeing how this is as bad or as senseless as using a racial slur...

Ah well...

S͍̪̟̩̮̲̓̆ͫͧ̌ͭ͘͝A̟͑̂̔ͮ͞N̞̠̪̤̭̬͒͜͜T̋̇ͥ͛̔ͩ́͆ͪ҉̥͕͚̭͖̥Ǫ̶̱͙͎̜͙̦̉ͩ̈́ͣ̑ͤ̚R̗̪̗̦̤̱̬̖͑̇̿ͧ̿͘Ŭ̙̖̦̣̞̰̅͛͌̽̒ͥM̍̈͏̙͇̝͕͙̖̣͉ ̵̸͔̲̖͓͇̭͙̏ͥͬ̎̑̚ͅI̵̧̪̹̘͔͔̖̮͑̑ͬͣ̎̎ͅSͮ̊ͤ͛̎̌͏̶̡͔̺̯͚ ̱̄̔͘͘Ċ͚͇̄̋͆ͣͬ͘O̧͕̦̭̻͓̩̺̝̒̾͋̆ͥ̈́̃̿̚͟M̛̼͔͓͙̅̈́̍ͪ͐̇̀I̙̹͇͕̥̰͖̖̋͑̓̔͊͂̎̚͘͞N͉̦̟͕̑̋̐ͤ̀G̵̝̼̹͎͙͒̐͌̈͆ͬ̚͘
͇̫̦̰̓͞͞͞
̛͙̞͇̘̯̥̊́̿ͬ̚̚S̸̽͏̸̼A̷͚̔ͧN̸̵̡̲͖͓͎̮̊͒ͩT͊͆ͤ͌̈́̆͏͖̹̻̟̬͎͚ͅO̩̺̭͂ͮͬ͝R͎͍͖͖ͯ͗U̪̱͖̅͘̕M̢̰̖̐ͭ͗͟͞ ̢͕̙̤͔͓̥̟̣͖͑̐̓I̠̮͚͌ͩͩ͛ͦͮͥ̓͟͠Sͬͩ͌̑͛ͣ͢͏͕͉̫ ̩͉̘̻̺͔͗͒͑̿̃̃̽ͣ́̚͘C̷̯̆̃ͯͧͯͩÓ̴̼͚̜̯̙̈ͨM̷̛͉̜͍ͥ̿̾ͣ͛̈́́I̴̼͕̼̗̜̝͌͂̑͌̆͘͡ͅN̨͓̯͉̈̿̆ͬ͗͌̅ͤ͢G̵͗͂̔̎̑̈͏̤̥
̢̘̼͚͐ͭ̿̚͝ͅ
ͤ͏̷̰̙̜͔͉̮̝ͅR̈̂͒͛͂͏̵͉͇U̡̢͉̟̭̰̲̯̓̍ͯ́N̘̩̣̣ͩ̂̀ ͊ͧ̈̂̒ͪ̂̽҉̺̖̦̥̳̥̤͉A̢͔ͤ̔ͩͨͬͨ̓́͢L̷͓͓͇̤͂͂ͮ̏̈̎̾̾L̵͉̱̦̮̺͌̋ͬ̌ͬͤͩ͌ ͚̜͑͊ͯ͢Ẏ̘̼͉͈̻̩͍̈̉O͍̲̿̈́̏̈́ͧ̓Ü̹̮̔̾͊ͩ͗ͮ ̙̬̫͈̤̟̬̬̊̊͋̎ͮ͛͌̏N̡͚̲̫̞͈̑̊͂̓̋̚͘Ĭͫ̈́̃̈́͐̏͜҉̞̭̪G̱̹͇̜̙̹̻͙̪͂ͪ.̴͙̞̥̩ͪ͆ͯ̓͗́.͉͓̆̔ͨ͑̐̈͌.̴̡͕̭ͬ̔̋Ũ̡̳̤͎̪̆͞ṃ̧̨̦̱̘͗͟
̣͓͖̈̇ͧ̓́ͩ͑͒̚͠
̶̸͓͉͙̫̲̞̳͍̎̈́b̜̦̪̠͓͓́͗ͦ͂ͩ̂l̵̤̼̥͚̼̟͉̳̦͊ͮ͆͛̑̓ͧ̚a̸͖̭̜̍̓ ̸̥͎͈͈̉̿̎ͣͩͨͨ͡p̜͉̮̆͗̆̾͑ͩ͋̾̕̕ḛ̸͆͐̿͆ͥͧo̠͌͋͛ͩ͑ͮ̕͝p̛͔̮̩͈̠̦̹̣̐͂͋̄ͬ̾́͡l͍͎̘̈́̓ͪ̉͘eͮͩ̌̏ͫ̀͏̘̗̞



hoo sorry about I think I was possessed by the frothy devil there for a second.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Uh, no. He lags way behind Romney in actual delegate votes.

Given that both comments are given to interpretation, those who think the Missile defense shield is more important than a racial slur from a non office holder would consider it worse.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

All part of the bread and circuses. There is nothing to see here, don't look behind the curtain.

[oslo.livejournal.com]

Sorry - a formatting error completely garbled my attempt at a comment - I deleted to avoid any confusion.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

It's not your fault, the Santorum is spreading D:

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Yes, Obama is going to pull a 180 after being re-elected.
He's gonna start taking all your guns....

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

I fucking KNEW IT!!

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I know how you feel. I have a neighbor who has investments that will suffer if Obama cuts back on military development.

What do you think of this guy?:

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

I really can't say. I would not make a definitive conclusion on listening to someone for 3 minutes and 41 seconds. Heck I used to like Rick Santorum when I only read where he stood on many issues.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

this bothers me a great deal

That we think its a brilliant idea to keep nuclear bombs at the ready bothers me quite a bit. We're going to use them sooner or later.

The best thing Reagan ever almost did was to dismantle many of them, and he came closer to eliminating the whole lot than anyone since.

But, what is it that bothers you? What's the worst case you fear?

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

I think it would bother me a lot more not to have them at the ready, even tho I don't think we will use them.

That's a fair question, but I'm not sure I want to answer the first part.
As to what is the worst case (I'm not sure fear enters into it, but that's getting philosophical and/or delving too deep into semantics): We dismantle and Russia decides to expand back into the USSR.