Psychology and Race

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Things have been getting messy in The National Discourse. We're getting sloppy. Things that are granted are quite problematic upon closer review, and behaviors are being tacitly condoned when their ostensible justification doesn't apply. Now, what do I mean by that?

What I mean is that we've gradually forgotten crucial distinctions between hate and fear. When it comes to racism, you have two primary motivating psychologies: hate and fear (I just said that). Fear based racism is crossing the street because you're afraid of black men. Hate based racism is looking for black men to attack.

Now, in the interests of making an honest attempt at a racial discussion, I will say the following: fear-based racism is much less pernicious and much less, shall we say, disgusting. So there's some little old white lady who has spent her whole life hearing bad stories about black people, she doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground, and she is generally just afraid of black men. While this is bad, and regrettable, and all that, I would venture to say that we don't feel like the little old lady is a bad person per se. She's just, well, a sheltered little old lady and is more pitiable than worthy of revile.

Why do I draw this distinction? I draw this distinction because anti-social and psychopathic types often hide behind the "understandable" and "reasonable" as excuses for their behavior. The violent anti-social person turns the "understandable" avoidance of black men at night into attacking black men at night. And that is where the true evil lies. All of a sudden we are discussing whether or not the circumstances led to a "reasonable" suspicion, couched as "fear", when what we're dealing with is hate, pure and simple.

To put it bluntly: The National Discourse has gone from debating the merits and acceptability of crossing the street to avoid black men, to whether or not it is OK to shoot black men.

Fearful people do not confront, attack or provoke. Fearful people cross the street. Fearful people avoid and guard. Fearful people don't murder. Hateful people, on the hand, deliberately put themselves into situations and positions which hide their motivations and cloak their behavior under the excuse of "I was afraid" or "He was suspicious". Fearful people freeze, panic, are helpless and get victimized. Hateful people are predators, make others their victims, and are what we call "type-A" personalities when it comes to action and violence.

Wolves in sheep's clothing do like quite ridiculous when you really look at it. And what they are doing is gradually radicalizing racial discourse and relations while complaining about everything being made about race.

Technical note: People have been using the phrase "presumed innocent until proven guilty" in a fallacious manner as well. A presumption of innocence is not at statement of fact about innocence. A man is not "innocent until proven guilty." The question of innocence is what the trial is for. To presume innocence is simply an operative condition upon the conduct and behavior of the government-- it does not apply to internet discussions. Think this one through: If the government thought you were innocent, they wouldn't charge you with a crime.

Comments

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

While it is pitiful that such basic logic displayed in this post is needed here, I'm still gonna be the first to say that, yes, the logic displayed in
this post really *is* sorely needed, in here today.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

It would help if he got it right. A trial is not about innocence, it is about guilt. The verdict is either "guilty" or "not guilty". Trials do not conclude innocence.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

Q: Are people on neighborhood watch fearful or hateful?
A: Those aren't the only two options.

Are people with mixed race parents more likely or less likely to be racist?
Zimmerman has a mom, cousins, uncles and grandparents who are hispanic, I doubt he's scared or hateful of brown people.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Cause all "brown" people are exactly the same so there's no hispanic-black racism possible.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Someone obviously hasn't read about the kind of racism that does exist in Latin America. But why do basic research when it's easier to excuse shooting a 17 year old in the chest that way?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

How do you know? You interviewed him?

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I'd say people with mixed race parents are equally likely as anyone else to be racist.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

It's funny, because generally blacks and hispanics are much more racist against each other than white people.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

Isn't this racism and xenophobia?

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

I don't know but I think in the past month I've heard more justifications for killing teenage boys then I can possibly stand...

Does anyone think that this could have happened to their child?

Or their younger brother maybe?

Or cousin?

Or even best friend?

I only live a stone's throw away from Sanford, I'd probably recognize the apartments he was killed in. He could have easily have been someone I knew you fucking assholes!!!

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

He was just visiting, whereas Zimmerman actually lived there. It doesn't bother you that people want this almost neighbor of yours to go to jail for murder when he could easily be innocent?

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Yep, and it's precisely because the gun rights lobby has been hijacked into a social engineering issue, and gets people talking about homicide (justifiable or not) as if it is a normalized and acceptable, or even routine incident. Justifiable homicide is not desirable homicide. I have no wish to kill anymore people, even if I was justified. Much less do I want to tailor a society that now caters to such.

[dexeron.livejournal.com]

This. So much this. A healthy debate is one thing. But a kid (young man, whatever) was KILLED. Is it too much to ask, in the mad rush to find technical quibbles and semantic justifications, for at least SOME evidence of basic human empathy or sympathy before people post the "Look at what a thug he was he deserved to be shot" photos?

I hear you: most of my good friends (and some of my family) live all along I-4 up there: Deltona, Altamonte Springs, Lake Mary. Sorry you're having to put up with all of this.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Never say never, and I didn't say never. Behavior is a statistical thing.

While it doesn't seem like is a possibility in the most recent case we've been talking about, in general the possibility of killing as the distinction between the hater and the fearful is a false one.
Actually it's the opposite. In general, behavioral profiles support the distinction between taking a life and not taking a life based on a behavioral/psychological profiles (depending on if you actually believe in a methodological distinction between psychology/behavior anyways).

This is why racism in the form of irrational fear is not something that can be allowed to lay dormant, firstly because it can turn into violent hate, but because even in the form of mere fear itself it can lead to active discrimination, suffering and even killing.
I agree, but fearful racism is a helluva lot easier to get rid of, and most fearful racists can mitigate their racism with simple education or interaction with those they fear.

[ginnyjake.livejournal.com]

The presumption I'd say applies more to the jury than to the conduct of the government.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Fear generally leads to hatred. Hatred generally is a result of fear.

And so is The Dark Side, I hear.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

Fear leads to hatred, hatred leads to fear
And so is the Dark Side, I hear, I hear.

There. Fxed it.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's any actual logical or scientific evidence for some chain of emotion such as this. As much I like Yoda, that line just sounds good is all. Psychopaths are notoriously fearless. It's a basic part of their psychological profile. Part of their disorder is a lack of healthy fear.

[surferelf.livejournal.com]

Fearful people do not confront, attack or provoke.

I cannot disagree with this statement more strongly.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

There's no evidence Zimmerman ran up and shot Or assaulted Martin outright. While race MAY have played a factor in Zimmerman's suspicions his claim that Martin assaulted him would make the assault the reason why Zimmerman shot him.

Your scenario is essentially reversed where the scared Martin reacted to Zimmerman because of race. Would Martin have hit a black man acting suspicious of him?

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Yes, black men are often afraid of other black men for the same culturally inculcated reasons as white men are often afraid of black men. It's called internalization, and human psychology doesn't differ very greatly between "races".

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Zimmerman ignoring police advice to instigate a conflict supports your idea.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Your assertion is not supported by the 911 tape.

http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1397915.html?thread=111543451#t111543451

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Zimmerman might not be a racist, but the likelihood is getting higher by the minute. A guy who calls the cops on all the black people he sees. Says they are on drugs and acting funny. Is not a racist? We can assume all we want, but all things being equal, that sounds pretty racist.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

The best part is that Zimmerman's dad and brother claim that his shiny, pristine bald head was bounced off of the pavement for a solid minute.

And that his nose was broken.

That dude's jacket was fucking perfect.

His head was as bald and shiny as ever.

"Oh but he got treated and changed at the time of that video"

Yeah, I suppose 30 minutes is plenty of time for Weapon X to regenerate.

[notmrgarrison.livejournal.com]

If you look around the 1:06 to 1:08 marks he looks like he has a bump near the top of his head, a bit right to the center. It's hard to tell with fuzzy video. And they've said it was raining. Yet his t-shirt doesn't look wet. Must be that it wasn't raining?