[identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
We have had many posts regarding the tragic shooting death of Trayvon Martin, what we know about it and whether or not there is enough evidence to charge George Zimmerman with the murder of an unarmed 17 year-old. Those posts have gotten not only heated but frankly nasty, and I am hesitant to wade into this subject at all.

I'll front load this with my confession: I think the weight of the evidence favors charging Zimmerman. His calls to 911 and his continuing to follow Mr. Martin when advised against it and the testimony of Mr. Martin's girlfriend that he was worried about the guy following him, make it likely to me that Mr. Zimmerman initiated the confrontation that led to the shooting. If he can make a credible argument that he was "standing his ground", let a judge read that in a motion to dismiss. If that motion fails, then argue it at trial. The police should not be in the business of deciding what matters of law are ever heard by a judge or what matters of fact are ever heard by a jury when there is no doubt that an unarmed man is dead and the shooter's identity is not in question. I fully understand that there are those who either disagree or who think there is not enough evidence to take that step -- I will not argue that.



I do not think that it can be disputed that Trayvon Martin died because George Zimmerman suspected him of criminal behavior or having the intent of commiting criminal actions. His calls to 911 include him mentioning a series of break ins in the neighborhood. He muttered about how "they always get away with it" which I presume to mean that thieves were never caught. To my mind, it is a matter of fact that if George Zimmerman did not suspect Trayvon Martin of being a criminal, he never would have followed him and the confrontation that led to Trayvon Martin's death would never have happened.

But why did George Zimmerman suspect Trayvon Martin? We know for a fact that the young man was walking back to the home of his father's girlfriend. We know for a fact that he was talking to his girlfriend during that walk. We know for a fact that he was carrying an iced tea and candy. I believe that it is very clear that Trayvon Martin was suspected of being a problem for the simple reason that he was black, male and young.

I do not know George Zimmerman well enough to know if he is a hard core racist or not, although I find the alternative explanations for the alleged epithet he said while speaking to 911 strained at best. I do believe whole heartedly that it was a racist assumption that led to Trayvon Martin's death - the assumption that a young black man is rightfully held in suspicion regardless of how innocuous his behavior.

That asumption has been shamefully bolstered recently by people who claim to have photos of Trayvon Martin acting in a less than savory fashion from his Facebook page. Michelle Malkin used her web site Twitchy to circulate that material until it was pointed out that the photo was a different Trayvon Martin, one who is still breathing. Some people seem sadly invested in the idea that the young Mr. Martin MUST have been some kind of unsavory character to warrant Mr. Zimmerman's attention -- despite the indisputable fact that he was doing absolutely nothing out of the ordinary when Mr. Zimmerman first held him in suspicion.

What has bubbled to the surface from these observations is a narrative repeated by a number of African American journalists about "The Talk" that their parents had with them as young black men growing up, a "talk" they are having with their own sons. In most families, the idea of having "The Talk" with a child entails something biological, but these men have relayed the shared experience of their parents teaching them how to conduct themselves in public so that they do not come under suspicion of wrong doing or can readily counter the accusation if they are. Corey Dade, former economics reporter for The Wall Street Journal and current national correspondent for NPR wrote a piece describing the lessons his parents taught him. Among them, he was taught to never leave a store without a shopping bag and a receipt. His father dragged him from a street corner where he was simply hanging out with friends -- because loitering of any kind anywhere would invite a police "sweep". He was taught very bluntly to never, ever talk back to police or to reach into his pocket if confronted by police. Mr. Wade's own brother had to apply that advice when his walk to his car to get something when visiting a cousin in an affluent neighborhood resulted in a neighbor calling the police who arrived quickly and in force.

Mr. Dade joined Michel Martin's Shop Talk Panel to discuss the Trayvon Martin case with freelance journalist Jimi Izrael, civil rights attorney Arsalan Iftikhar and sports editor Dave Zirin. The issue of "The Talk" came up and it was relayed that none of the black men on the panel knew a black man who had parents who did NOT get "the talk", especially regarding police. Mr. Izrael was particularly upset by the entire situation and what it seems to represent to him:

I said this at the top, I hate the story and I hate it because it never, ever surprises me to hear about black men getting accosted, basically for minding their own business. You know, a few years ago, we had Henry Skip Gates, the neighbors called the police because he looked out of place, somehow suspicious....Florida also - if I'm correct - they also passed a law outlawing baggy jeans and now black men with a hood up on his head, you know, is some cause for concern. It's as if the black codes are back and I'm waiting for a day when this will no longer be shocking.


Further in the conversation, and I urge you to listen to at least the first 7 minutes when you have the time because the transcript does not convey the pain in his voice, he responds to the conversation about "the talk" black men have about how to behave especially with police officials:

IZRAEL: But wait a second. What everybody seems to be missing is Zimmerman wasn't an authority figure. He wasn't a cop. He was just some random white guy. What talk do we give now?

ZIRIN: That's...

IZRAEL: That's what I wanted to know.

DADE: Well, but, that's part - but you know what Jimi? This is Corey here.

IZRAEL: Go ahead. Go ahead.

DADE: That's part of the discussion. It's like, and that's part of the nevers that I got too. You never know when something might jump off.

IZRAEL: Word.

DADE: It doesn't necessarily take an authority figure. It could be somebody with a chip on his shoulder. It doesn't really matter. You don't know where it's going to come from. And that what leads to, you know, on the perverse side of it, that's what leads to a certain amount of paranoia.

IFTIKHAR: Yeah.

DADE: So it doesn't have to be an authority figure. It could be somebody who is having road rage on the street and he takes it to another level and he starts, you know, hurling racial epithets. You don't know where it's going to come from.


Every now and then, I hear or read it suggested that if people would just stop talking about racism and race "all the time" then racism would finally fade away to a barely perceptible level. The insinuation of this seems to be that it is the act of talking about race that highlights differences and distinctions, that perpetuates racial tension and animosity and serves to make racism more intractable.

But I think Trayvon Martin and these discussions of "the talk" make me realize how either naive or pernicious that line of reasoning is. How can a black man in America STOP talking about race if one of the fundamental rites of passage in his life includes adults who care for him teaching that it is not enough for him to act the SAME way as his non-black peers, but if he wants to not be treated as a criminal suspect that he has to be BETTER than them? How can he STOP talking about race if his circle of family and friends includes people stopped and questioned by police when their behavior was entirely innocent? When things that the rest of us take for granted like saying "no, thank you" to a paper receipt can result in being accused of shoplifting?

At the end of the day, if we really want people to "stop talking about race" maybe many more of us should stop being racist.

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Date: 29/3/12 20:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Image

^Summarizes my view of this post better than words could.

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Date: 29/3/12 21:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johnny9fingers.livejournal.com
May I agree with this without provoking someone into a diatribe about how only white people are ever victims of racism?

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From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com - Date: 29/3/12 21:24 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 29/3/12 21:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
We have had many posts regarding the tragic shooting death of Trayvon Martin

Yes, indeed. Many, many, many posts. With lots of use of the new fancy LJ-tag, etc. :P

Just pulling your leg. Yet another good analysis.
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Date: 29/3/12 21:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
Oh great. Now we'll be asked what "tragic" really means. Why it's so tragic, what's so tragic about it, would it be tragic if it wasn't so tragic, etc.

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Date: 30/3/12 05:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johnny9fingers.livejournal.com
I don't know if this is relevant:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/30/trayvon-martin-witness-zimmerman-uninjured

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Date: 30/3/12 10:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com
If you look around the 1:06 to 1:08 marks he looks like he has a bump near the top of his head, a bit right to the center. It's hard to tell with fuzzy video.

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Date: 29/3/12 21:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
there's an article I read a few weeks ago, which, sadly, I can no longer find, where one of the residents of the neighborhood talks about how he is suspicious of young black men walking through.

The irony is that he's a young black man himself, and he comes to the realization, during his interview, that he deliberately avoids the kind of behavior that made Zimmerman suspicious of Martin -- ie, he doesn't go for walks in his neighborhood He drives from work to home, then goes inside and stays there till he leaves the next morning. If he wants to go for a walk, he gets in his car, drives someplace where he won't be accosted, and walks there.

Then, in the article, his wife weeps.
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From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com - Date: 29/3/12 22:04 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 29/3/12 22:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
It's very simply why Zimmerman was suspicious of Martin.

He was an unknown person walking across the lawns of a cul-de-sac that he did not recognize while wearing a hoodie. And yes, a hoodie is a perfectly allowable clothing item but it's akin to wearing a ball cap and sunglasses into a bank. It's an item of clothing often used by thieves to make identification much more difficult.

It's absolutely reasonable to be suspicious of him.

As such, Martin's response of confronting Zimmerman and getting physical (yes, I know it's not absolutely proven but witnesses saw Martin standing over a prone Zimmerman and 911 confirms his yells for help so it's good enough for speculation) was not a reasonable expectation.

A lot of people seem to conflate their desire to punch a guy who is challenging them with the legality of doing so.
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Date: 29/3/12 22:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
'Every now and then, I hear or read it suggested that if people would just stop talking about racism and race "all the time" then racism would finally fade away to a barely perceptible level. The insinuation of this seems to be that it is the act of talking about race that highlights differences and distinctions, that perpetuates racial tension and animosity and serves to make racism more intractable.'

Because there's a fundamental dishonesty in discussions on race in America. That kinda highlights it. When racial issues are discussed, there is never an attempt to understand. Only lecture. The left-wing premises and arguments on race and inequality are considered de facto correct and anything running counter to the idea of inherent racism by white people is considered racism itself.

In short, we can't drink from a well that's poisoned and you can't get mad at us for refusing to do so.
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Date: 29/3/12 23:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com
despite the indisputable fact that he was doing absolutely nothing out of the ordinary when Mr. Zimmerman first held him in suspicion.

How is that an indisputable fact?
You've seen video of his walk home to see that he wasn't doing anything suspicious?
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Date: 29/3/12 23:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eracerhead.livejournal.com
Here's a good article on this very subject:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/03/conservatives-declare-racism-dead/50406/

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Date: 30/3/12 00:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Great analysis and write-up.

I'd like to offer my suggestion this post would get the 'recommended' tag.

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Date: 30/3/12 01:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
seconded.

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Date: 30/3/12 01:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
Zimmerman was told not to pursue him by the police, and he did.

End of story.

Any conflict that resulted from that is entirely his fault.

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Date: 30/3/12 01:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
He was also a 17 year old black kid in a hoodie instead of a fetus.

End of story as far as any outrage about the wanton waste of human life from the so-called pro-life faction.

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Date: 30/3/12 02:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
Honestly, "the Talk" just sounds like a summary of all the lessons people generally learn over a longer period, and are things that everyone should know.

And the other problem is that this comment will get jumped on for "denying racism exists" when I'm not even touching on that at all. Yes, black people shouldn't feel the need to do that. Yes, people shouldn't get frightened by seeing a black man in their neighborhood.

But on the other side, in a lot of places, anyone out of place will get the cops called on them. It just happens that having black skin in an area that has mostly white skin stands out as out of place more easily than other characteristics. Same with wearing a hoodie.

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Date: 30/3/12 02:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
Honestly, "the Talk" just sounds like a summary of all the lessons people generally learn over a longer period, and are things that everyone should know.

So why does it seem to be a primarily black phenomenon?

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Date: 30/3/12 02:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
Every now and then, I hear or read it suggested that if people would just stop talking about racism and race "all the time" then racism would finally fade away to a barely perceptible level.

Usually the statement is that if people stop calling every little thing that has a racial aspect to it "racism" then we might progress a little more quickly to the point of there being almost no racism.

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Date: 30/3/12 03:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chessdev.livejournal.com
Very good post. Thank you for this.

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Date: 30/3/12 05:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
[Recommended]

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Date: 30/3/12 04:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
I'm disappointed that the arguments get derailed into whether or not Zimmerman was racist in his motivations. That's small-potatoes. What is undeniably racist is the behavior of the police department. That is what matters here, more than Zimmerman. The police are supposed to account for individual racists, not participate in institutional racism via sins of omission. Yeah right, in Utopia this is true... but if there is one "issue" I don't care about, it is about whether or not some random asshole fuckhead is racist. The goddamn police department is the issue.

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Date: 30/3/12 10:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] michael barnett (from livejournal.com)
And as racist as police departments are, they're nothing next to DA's offices.

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Date: 30/3/12 09:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] michael barnett (from livejournal.com)
You call it being racist, but the statistics are quite clear about race and crime. And I'm not saying blacks commit crimes at ridiculously higher rates than other races qua their blackness. It could be because such a large percentage of them occupy the lower/lowest socioeconomic positions in the country and perhaps socioeconomic poverty is the basis of crime and thus black becomes the face of crime by extension.

But the idea that it's racist to be suspicious of blacks when the statistics overwhelming back up those suspicions is silly. It's the reason women pay lower car insurance rates. Statistics. And it's the reason people think of bankers and scientists and Hollywood entertainers/executives as Jews -- they're overrepresented by enormous margins in those areas. Is it racist or sexist to be conscious of such things? I don't think so. If it is, then it seems like racism might be a survival tool.

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Date: 30/3/12 18:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fornikate.livejournal.com
this is a good post. too bad it's derailing into 'but but but it's not racism' :(

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Date: 30/3/12 18:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com
Great post. It's helpful to remember the social contexts that events like this happen in.

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